To be pissed off at having just seen my tenants spending a load of cash whilst they're behind on rent?

[JennylovesRosie]

I am fed up to the back teeth.

This is the third month now where they're falling behind.

(I know them by their appearance and we have a mutual friend on a social networking site)

I have just seen them paying for a spa and no doubt it'll be up on social media next week (they like to brag and display all their newly acquired gains in Instagrammed glory.)

Next month my kids won't have the birthday parties they wanted because I'm subsidising these idiots living expenses and incurring charges as for their late/part payments.

Has anyone managed to get tenants out despite then not being 2 months late on rent. The Lettings agency have told me I'm stuck with them . Can I fine them?

They got a 12 fixed contract in January and surprise-surprise they started to default from day one of it.

I'm so upset.

[scaryteacher]

Pagen is being sensible by retaining the property. MoD will not house you post retirement, so you need somewhere to live. Lots of Forces families (and, yes, they also count as hard-working families), do this to keep a toe hold on the housing ladder, whilst serving and living elsewhere.

[Shining15]

Pagen is being sensible by retaining the property

maybe so, but then why use the phrase 'reluctant landlord' same goes for accidental landlord?
I presume the thinking is 'well I know people are critical of landlords but maybe if I make out I had no choice but to be a landlord people will forgive me'
It's tosh, just admit that you freely chose to be a landlord

[scaryteacher]

In the military you are frequently posted at short notice to parts of the country away from home. The choice is weekending or moving the entire family, which can involve reluctance, especially if the non serving spouse has to give up their career to do so, and leave their home. We weekended for 4 years once which was do-able, but when it was from a different country, it got problematic.

I was reluctant to leave my home in that situation, but could see no upside to selling it, as I want to live in it again. I could either leave it empty, or let it out, so we do the latter, whilst we are abroad. We rent abroad (from the MoD initially) and now privately, so are both tenants and landlords. However we are in the situation that we can pay the mortgage irrespective of rent coming in, and aren't on a BTL.

I have to say, apart from the length of the tenancies, which are in years here, as opposed to months, the tenants in the UK do quite well in terms of what the landlords should do. As tenants here we pay for maintenance, gardening, buildings insurance, servicing of the central heating, water softener, chimney sweeping, and there is an annual rent increase in line with indexation. There is no idea of fair wear and tear either.....you have to hand the property back as it was when you took it over. A friend moved house recently and felt lucky to get away with €3k in charges! The deposits are in a 'locked' account at a bank, and won't be released until the l/l agrees. The continental model of renting isn't all it's cracked up to for the tenants.

I don't think it's about looking for forgiveness, but people rent a property out for different reasons. I know that I want to go back to mine, and that I couldn't invest money to keep up with house price growth; I also didn't know how long we would posted abroad for, and wanted to have somewhere to return to as dh was nearing the end of his career. Easier to keep the house and let it out.

[mathanxiety]

But that is not what Pagen and her H have in mind, ScaryTeacher.
my husband insists we persevere until he comes out and we are in a position to settle and buy - then we can finally sell this millstone of a house!
They are not returning to that house. They are holding onto it in order to make more money on it when they sell, and in the meantime the tenants are paying for their mortgage, or providing income if there is no mortgage. There is no accident involved in their transformation into landlords. It is a rational business decision.

I agree with Shining, that term is tosh. Even my old friends whose house didn't sell could have taken advice from their selling agent that might have made it look a lot better than it did. Instead they relied on location, location, location, and lo and behold the feedback they got was that the house should have been priced far lower than they had priced it. Even that much lower price would have been far, far better than short selling. They weren't desperate to sell because they thought renting it out would be a lot more straightforward than it turned out to be.

[whois]

If people like the OP didn't rent out their family homes as 'accidental' or 'reluctant' landlords there would be hardly any 'family home' stock to rent. Proper BTL investors look for max yield, which you don't get in a suburban 3 bed semi or larger family house. All the LL bagging is really quite annoying, the OP isn't mirdering babies, she's just trying to rent a house out!

[BoffinMum]

Reality of continental rent from the German point of view.

1. In all the nice urban places to live the rents are as high as comparable places over here.
   
2. You usually have to sign a long lease for a couple of years at least, or otherwise it's super expensive serviced apartments aimed at business people on contracts or Air BnB for you, unless you are very lucky.
   
3. Unless its a new build, you may well need to install your own kitchen and all white goods, as the majority of homes are supplied without.
   
4. The property needs to be returned in immaculate as-new condition, having been professionally redecorated and repaired in all respects at your own expense, and you will have to remove the kitchen you only just installed and leave the remaining kitchen void immaculate ready for the next person to install one.
   

Advantages.

1. You can't be evicted if you are a single mother.
   
2. There are stricter rules about what constitutes acceptable living space, which means usable area can be a bit larger. No beds in kitchens and other examples of the worst excesses you see in London, or example.
   
3. There are loads of dry cellars in existence and each flat in a block usually gets a large storage space within a cellar for suitcases, skis, baby gear and so on. This takes the pressure off the main house.
   
4. Washing machine plumbing is often in the bathroom, and bathrooms tend to be a bit larger, which means the kitchen isn't cluttered with washing so much.

[BoffinMum]

Very typical family flat in Bonn. Look at the kitchen space! You would also have to take a turn cleaning the communal staircase each week and shovelling any snow from the front in winter, and if you didn't manage to do this, your neighbours would be so outraged they wouldn't speak to you (but that's just Germany, I imagine!) You would also not be able to use your washing machine, have a bath, or wee standing up after 10pm (I am absolutely not making this up) as people are obsessive about noise pollution.

www.immowelt.de/expose/29Q7N4P

[liquidrevolution]

OP - Just continue being fabulous!

That is all.

[Shining15]

If people like the OP didn't rent out their family homes as 'accidental' or 'reluctant' landlords there would be hardly any 'family home' stock to rent

If people like the op didn't rent their family home out they would sell it at a realistic lower price helping to gently deflate the housing bubble an allowing a family (who would like to buy but can't because prices have been pushed up by landlord hoarding properties) to have a more secure future as owner occupiers.

Landlords are not sainted beings housing the nation, they are profit seeking renters who have a damaging effect on the economy, the housing market and family life.
They buy up property and prevent other people from ever becoming owner occupiers

[Shining15]

Boffinmum, I've heard that about Germany but I'd happily comply because I love peace and quiet😇

However, hard floors rather than carpet in a flat, isn't that noisy for the people downstairs?

[Shining15]

We wouldn't have 'generation rent' without btl
The btler gets her pension and secure future
Genrenter never has a secure home, will never have the kind of retirement where you can relax a bit because the mortgage is paid off, where you can sell the family home downsize and release some of the equity that you built up.
Genrents money has all been siphoned off by the BTLer so that she can have a really cosy retirement, at the expense of the generation below

[SauvignonPlonker]

I think there's a huge difference between "accidental/reluctant" LL - who often bought just before the 2007/8 crash & would be in negative equity if they sold, or temporarily relocated for work etc - and the BTL portfolio types.

And the reasons for renting are complex too - in my case it was following redundancy & self-employment when we couldn't get a mortgage - so we rented for 5 years & finally bought age 41.

Deposits are much higher nowadays; I can remember the days of 5% deposits, or 110% mortgages. And even 6-8 X salary mortgages, interest-only etc, or endowments showing my age. So lending has changed dramatically too.

I think the recent taxation changes will start taking effect soon. Unless you have a tiny mortgage, the profits are very small in LL'ing, contrary to what people might think. I think many will sell up in coming years, when they realise it's not simple, easy or that profitable.

[JapanNextYear]

I'm an accidental landlord, moved in with DH to see how it would go, so didn't want to sell up my place. Tenants moved in on the understanding that it would be short term, and they've stayed. I don't want to sell up from underneath them, but I also don't really want to be a landlord anymore.

[Laura812]

People who put the financial intersts of their family above other things have the moral high ground. It's called love. People who don't invest in anything and piss their income up the wall or sit on their bottom all day doing nothing have no moral high ground. Landords are a social good. We are lucky to have them.

[MarthaCliffYouCunt]

I'm an accidental landlord, moved in with DH to see how it would go, so didn't want to sell up my place

There is nothing accidental about your situation! It was a deliberate decision based on a desire to have your financial commitments served whilst you tested out another living scenario. Your tenants didnt tumble into your house and claim tenants' rights!

[MarthaCliffYouCunt]

@ laura you're hilarious. Do you write your own material.

[ItsLikeRainOnYourWeddingDay]

Jenny I fully support you on this.

I get so fed up off lazy fuckers who don't give a rats ass about anyone but themselves. That's prob why they are still renting and haven't managed to achieve the salary/achievements/drive to be home owners themselves.

Flame me all you like but it's true. 99% of the time home ownership isn't from some big fat inheritance or the back of mum and dad. Is hard work. It's saving. It's education.

Jenny I hope you get them out and make sure their reference is suitably detrimental to them

[MarthaCliffYouCunt]

Another comedian

Link for your 99% 'fact'?

[GreenMarkerPen]

However, hard floors rather than carpet in a flat, isn't that noisy for the people downstairs?

not usually a problem in germany as the building regulations regarding noise protection are much tougher.

[AriaTloak]

The goady fuckers comedians are out in force today.

99%... Hahahaha

[Handsoffmysweets]

Oh we're still at it then!! I'm not being goady in any way but 'accidental' landlord is a bit of a silly phrase really, because it literally means you accidentally became one. Clearly you didn't and the decision to become a landlord was a calculated move to ensure that whilst you moved countries, cities etc you kept your property and had someone covering your mortgage whilst you forked out for living expenses elsewhere. (Nothing wrong with this IMO). It's a bit perdantic though of some people on here who are being goady towards 'accidental' & 'reluctant' landlords when I'm sure they know full well they are only using a phrase conjured by our government & not actually invented by the posters themselves.

[MarthaCliffYouCunt]

Amateur and career LL are probably more accurate terms for those let their former home and those who do it as business.

Accidental LL does grate because its as if theyre saying "wasnt my fault, i couldnt help it"

[SauvignonPlonker]

These are much better descriptions, Martha.

[Oysterbabe]

There will always be people who want to rent. The family living in my btl can definitely afford to buy but they don't want to as only intend to stay in the area for a few years for various reasons. There's a huge student population in this area too.
When this family move on I think we'll move into the house and rent out the flat we live in now, probably to students.
LLs aren't all evil and are meeting a need a lot of the time.

[mathanxiety]

BoffinMum, your description sounds like a lot of American rentals. You get a kitchen, but usually you use a communal washer and dryer in the basement. Basements usually have dedicated storage pens for each apartment. You furnish your apartment yourself. Carpeting is extremely unusual in older buildings, many of which have gorgeous hardwood floors and hex tile bathroom floors. Anything beyond 'normal wear and tear' to the apartment results in a deduction from your security deposit at the end of your lease. Pet deposits are usually required, separate from the security deposit. You pay extra for parking. Most leases are twelve months.

It seems to me that people who are willing to use the government-generated phrase have not really put much thought into how the system works, and what the government is trying to cloak by use of this phrase. To wit, heavy subsidisation of an owner class by the public coffers, and the opportunity presented by the systematic and deliberate strangling of local authority housing provision, leading to the creation of a landlords' market that really only benefits landlords.