To think this mother is right. Holiday in term time.

[derxa]

Normally I think children should not be taken out of school for holidays but this mother may have a point.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3559089/Mother-four-fined-60-truancy-taking-youngest-daughter-term-time-holiday-Government-free-meant-children-s-Easter-breaks-different-times.html

Good sad face as well

No, it doesn't. Obviously it means that by letting the government make decisions about when your child needs to go to school, you are abdicating your rights as parents to make your own decisions about where you go, and when, and when they need to go to school.

Not exactly nuanced, is it? You have to ask permission from headteachers for your children to attend family funerals, weddings, hospital appointments, and they can say NO? And you accept this? Bizarre.

not exactly nuanced, is it? So yes, you are saying exactly what I thought you originally were.

If I play by the rules and send my child to school when school is open, I do not see that as abdicating 'my rights as a parent'. It's the right thing to do, if you send a child to school, to send it not just when it's convenient for you but when the school is open. Even if you'd rather be on a nice warm beach.

Nobody in my family would schedule a wedding for a school day anyway - and I've never, ever, had a problem with funerals or hospital appointments. Those things are not the same as a week in the sun at Easter. Nuance, there.

No, I'm not. You still haven't understood at all. Never mind, some people never do progress from the childlike "rules are rules" mentality to be able to make their own decisions.

Oh for heaven's sake. Well, if you can explain what it is that you were trying to say that isn't - 'respecting a rule that is made for an eminently sensible reason (albeit enforced in a Draconian way by the GOVERNMENT, not by teachers) is the same thing as abdicating rights as parents', I'd be delighted to hear it.

Because so far, that really is what you've said and nothing more.

And yes, you can home ed and be a free spirit and all that - fine, good luck to you. But by choosing to use schools, and choosing to respect the rules of those schools, parents are no more 'abdicating their rights' than you are 'abdicating your human rights' when you choose to fly, and then in the airport you go where you're asked, you show the documentation you're asked for, and you board the right plane at the right time. It's not a big deal.

Parents who send their children to school have every sensible 'right' - they just don't have the 'right' to bog off on holiday with no recompense at a time when it happens to be convenient for them. Boo hoo.

Bless, still not getting it.

My sister and brother in law areteachers , they have 4 children . Mix of secondary and primary .Apart from 2 weeks in the summer hols and Christmas Rarely do they have same holidays . This year Feb half term , Easter, may half term all differ , They have always taken their kids out of school to match their hols . This year is the last as the eldest has GCSE 's.

Well, Tigger, as I say, do feel free to say what it is that you're trying to express here. You're obviously quite proud of it, so I'm sure it's worth explaining more carefully.

I've already told you twice, in quite short words, but if you're still struggling I can't see how a third explanation would help you.

Rules are rules, if we all went with that we'd all still be serfs

Conflating fairly basic rules about school attendance, designed because people a significant minority couldn't be trusted to be sensible about term time hols and it took up far to much of the heads time dealing with it, and campaigns for civil liberties is rather poor tbh.

Go on holiday, the fine is less than the saving you make, don't whinge about it.

I don't have the 'right' but I'm still doing it I'll send you a post card !

campaigns for civil liberties is rather poor tbh

right to family life is pretty basic.

So how is going away on holiday at Easter essential for family life? Are we all being deprived of family life when we see our children before and after school and at weekends?

Is it just in education that you have all willingly abdicated all rights as parents?

Obviously not. But by choosing to have children we all accept the duty to comply with the law relating to children, which include the duty to ensure that they receive full time education. The law gives us a wide range of ways to meet that duty, including home education, but society as a whole concludes that the need for our children to be educated trumps parents' wishes to do whatever the hell they like. And if we want to use the facilities provided by the state without charge, we have to accept at least the rules that make it possible for schools to function and give a satisfactory education - and that includes going with the school's choice of termtime rather than the parents'.

"we have to accept the rules that make it possible for schools to function and give a satisfactory education" Augusta

Yes, the reasonable rules of the school and state Augusta, but not necessarily any that they choose to implement without question or challenge from us as parents.

In a democracy we should get a say and the free opportunity to discuss the issues and contribute to the debate, as here.

My views are based on the important principle, often mentioned by schools themselves, that raising and educating our children is a partnership between home and school, and wider community also.

I feel it was more reasonable when two weeks holiday leave per child per year was normally allowed, or at least some holiday leave sometimes, at the discretion of the headteacher.

I think the present much stricter guidelines prevent many children and families from having a variety of enriching, sustaining, and encouraging experiences which would be very beneficial to those families, their wider families, and those children's lives.

I'm not usually sympathetic to holidays in term time but I think the family have a point here. What a nightmare for arranging holiday childcare too.

So how is going away on holiday at Easter essential for family life?

Not for me to decide. it's for the mother.

Holidays are not an essential they are a luxury and, if you can afford to take one, you should budget to pay the fine.

I have no patience at all with this type of behaviour

I've budgeted for my fine, and I'm taking my kids on holiday.

They're 4&8 their education can handle it, and we may not get the chance again for some years, so fuck it.

As a teacher, I think the changes have led to the situation becoming even more chaotic.

Before the change in rules, parents used to at least try and work with the school, to select dates when permission would be given, and avoid dates when it would not. Now they all get fines - they just choose the dates they want, regardless of whether it's a good time or not. A level students going off before Easter is not really a great idea!

Many parents where I live just take the time off and pay the fines. I can't say it's changed behaviour all that much. But I can't say I blame them. Indeed, I live on 3 county borders... I work in one county and my two children attend schools in two different counties. In fact, I only get 4 weeks off for the summer. Add in DH's restrictions over his time off, and needing to cover childcare when I'm at work and the children are off... (And as I teach, this all has to come from his holiday allocation). We've decided to go on holiday when DC1 and I are off, but DC2 is still at school. And I'll pay the fine.

In 19 years of teaching, I personally have never found it problematic for a child having time off for a holiday (assuming otherwise good attendance), and would far rather that the govt got on and dealt with the real problem - school refusers, children who are constantly late or miss a day a week... But of course they won't. That's far harder to solve and brings in less income.

Holidays are not an essential they are a luxury and, if you can afford to take one, you should budget to pay the fine.

Why should the government stand in the way of a family holiday? Why should they make it harder for families to afford this luxury? For some families, it's already difficult to afford it, but we tolerate governments making it even harder? why?

sonlypuppyfat "Rules are rules, if we all went with that we'd all still be serfs" Brilliant.

AugustaFinkNottle "... if we want to use the facilities provided by the state without charge...."

There is a charge, it is our taxes, we all pay it, we should all be able to take part in making fair rules. I don't mind other people's kids being off some of the time. My kids might get more personalized attention while others are off in Spain, or whatever, and my kids might need to take a back seat for 20 or 30 minutes when those kids come back and are catching up. The education system belongs to us all, or rather it did until the Tories started trying to privatize it by stealth!

Juggling totally agree with "I think the present much stricter guidelines prevent many children and families from having a variety of enriching, sustaining, and encouraging experiences which would be very beneficial to those families, their wider families, and those children's lives."

Our school has just decided to have their holidays different to the rest of the county, I think it is a total pain. It will really mess up any parents who work in education in other schools or colleges and any parent who has children in different schools. This little gem was concocted with no parental consultation, as was becoming an academy in the first place!

Kitla great points.

And if we want to use the facilities provided by the state without charge, hardly without charge Augusta - those of us who pay taxes pay for it!

and as others have said we ought to have a say in how it works rather than having fines thrust upon us for something that is not educationally detrimental - travel is life-enhancing - but suddenly we all have to agree that it's bad. Well bollocks to that! Children have a whole life to learn not just the first 18 years! In the context of their life IT DOES NOT MATTER IF THEY FALL A BIT BEHIND or have to retake the odd exam. They need to know that's okay . All this educational dogma about every single day being unmissably important (if so why does my child watch videos every day for the last two weeks of the year? ) did not exist nor was it needed when my eldest two went through school and university. The stress it puts on children is intolerable and unnecessary.

my youngest's primary head teacher sent me a letter last month informing us that she is giving us permission to attend our eldest's wedding this summer. In other words, giving my eldest child who she has never met permission to have parents and sibling at the wedding. What intelligent person thinks they have any say in such matters? I didn't ask for permission - I told her DC would be 400 miles away with something infinitely more important to do and wouldn't be at school. I am not pandering to this bonkers pretence that this transitory person in our lives has any authority over us. Does the Government think their control extends to approving parents being able to go to their children's weddings? Isn't this just ludicrous? Pythonesque?

I cannot fathom all the posters on this and other threads who 'have no patience with this sort of behaviour' - i.e. taking children out of school to travel/do family things - are you for real? On what planet is it NOT okay to do so? When I discuss it with colleagues overseas they laugh in disbelief. It suggests a very one - dimensional view of education. Learning doesn't only take place in a classroom in the presence of a schoolteacher.

The dogma wouldn't annoy me quite as much if the British undergraduates I teach were getting better or cleverer or more accomplished from all the Government meddling in schools but mostly they are not - if anything many are more needy, less self- reliant, more stressed, and not interested in learning just in ticking the boxes and 'buying' a degree. Despite all those shiny A*s and, I presume, now never missing a single day of school. Give me European students every time. I despair, I really do.