To think this mother is right. Holiday in term time.

[derxa]

Normally I think children should not be taken out of school for holidays but this mother may have a point.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3559089/Mother-four-fined-60-truancy-taking-youngest-daughter-term-time-holiday-Government-free-meant-children-s-Easter-breaks-different-times.html

Good sad face as well

I hope you don't teach logic to these undergraduates, Mytholmroyd! I'm not sure how you made the leap from your DC's headteacher granting permission for an absence to be recorded as 'authorised' to the government granting permission to grown adults to attend their children's weddings.

The headteacher wasn't granting permission for your family to attend a wedding, she was granting permission for your DC's absence to be recorded as a particular type (authorised).

You say What intelligent person thinks they have any say in such matters?. I say, What intelligent person could possibly not understand that the headteacher is simply doing what they are required to do and certainly wasn't trying to have a say in any such matters?

to the rules are rules people - we know what the rules are. we are questioning whether the rules make sense.

I don't mind other people's kids being off some of the time

You might mind if it means that the teacher is constantly having to help other children catch up rather than concentrate on taking the curriculum forward for all the children in the class.

That's the problem with saying there should be absolute freedom to take holidays because travel is educational. Firstly, whether travel is educational does rather depend on the nature of the holiday; if it's an all-inclusive where the children rarely venture beyond the hotel facilities, the educational value is somewhat limited. Secondly, if it is educational, it will be just as educational during the holidays. And thirdly, whilst it may not be detrimental to the children who go on holiday, it does become detrimental to the other children in the class.

"we are questioning whether the rules make sense."

Then ask the government, not schools as the governent enforce this.

A small but signficant minority of people ruined the at the Head's discretion thing, that's why it was taken out.

Sure, people should direct their anger at the government.

Mytholmroyd excellent post.

AugustaFinkNottle RE my comment "I don't mind other people's kids being off some of the time" and your reply "You might mind if it means that the teacher is constantly having to help other children catch up rather than concentrate on taking the curriculum forward for all the children in the class."

No, when I said it, I meant it. I know it might mean the teacher might be tied up with some other kids some of the time. Because let's face it with almost 30 kids in the class the teacher and one TA are not going to be spending a whole lot of time with my dcs anyway!

So teacher spending a bit of time catching mine up (if necessary - we have to my knowledge only ever taken one child out of school one time for one day in Year One) and I am happy for other children to be out for a holiday or wedding etc and that that would mean the teacher spends some time catching those other kids up.

I should say we had a teacher who was ill a lot, not her fault, but my child spent time in classes years below her class, think going from Year 5 to Year 1 for a whole day more than once, so the school (who also send notes home saying every minute counts) really cannot be serious in thinking every minute counts.

My friend's child spent time cleaning out a cupboard t school!

Now to be clear I am OK with kids cleaning out cupboards, going into a much lower class for the day, bringing cushions and watching movies, and having time out for a family holiday they could not afford at any other time of year. But that doesn't mean I don't care about education. It means I know every minute doesn't count otherwise kids who were often ill would be doomed, and we would all just be products of our many minutes.

My dd is very dyslexic and her school has done very little to help her with this, for her every minute has most definitely not counted. I have written and spoken to them about this endlessly and my dd's needs have registered very little.

If schools want us to take this shit seriously they really need to take our kids seriously. But teachers, and parents, (and kids) are only human so why pretend that learning only happens around a teacher and in a class room.

Re "That's the problem with saying there should be absolute freedom to take holidays because travel is educational."

I am not sure I would advocate for absolute freedom but the old system of two weeks a year or whatever sounds fine. We didn't abuse the system. I just support freedom for parents and kids.

Travel is educational, some more so than others. Maybe kids would look back at school and say that week in Spain was a highlight of my year, what right have schools got to take that away!

"If schools want us to take this shit seriously they really need to take our kids seriously."

It isn't the schools that impose this ffs.

It might be because I've never been much of a holiday goer, but why do people seem to think a holiday is a MUST. I know people who get absolutely distraught at the thought of not going abroad in the year, as in they'll cry and post about feeling depressed and how completely bang out of order it is. I understand how it's lovely having something to look forward to, but there seems to be a culture in which people see it as a right rather than a luxury.

My 6 grandchildren are still talking about the fantastic week they had in Tenerife at the end of September for our wedding.

We have amazing memories that will last a life time.

AugustaFinkNottle not picking on you but answering your points "Secondly, if it is educational, it will be just as educational during the holidays." Not necessarily affordable during the hols though.

Re "And thirdly, whilst it may not be detrimental to the children who go on holiday, it does become detrimental to the other children in the class" Not so, the rest of the class will need to be on the ball for their own education, as they always need to be, because with almost 30 of them who is only learning when they have eh undivided attention of the teacher?

Seriously, it's really not the case that other parents or kids are cross when there is a child who is absent for a week or two. I certainly am not, I would not even know. But my kids may get a bit more attention, proportionality while said child is out of class and slightly less when said child is first back in class. Do you even know when other children are absent?

lurked101 Re "Then ask the government, not schools as the government enforce this." How about the government asking us what we think, as parents, how about them canvassing opinion before changing rules. How about t hem doing a small study to see if this does in any measurable way affect the results (the all important reason why we send all our kids to school - the SATs!).

GraysAnalogy surely it is people's 'right' to spend their own money having a holiday if they want one?

italian Yes but that's completely different to what I was discussing

Its someones right to spend their money on a 6 foot inflatable dinosaur if they so wish to do so but it doesn't mean having one is a right.

lurked re "It isn't the schools that impose this ffs." But they administer it, I though 'sorry I was only following orders' wasn't a defense!

But seriously, I don't hate teachers or schools, I just feel that in our society their power and reach is out of proportion.

My dd's school has educated her badly for the last 7 years despite all my best efforts and I have been made to dance to their tune despite the fact I am as a tax payer paying for her education. we can't afford lots of hols so this is not an issue for us but for me it is a matter or principle.

I feel sorry the schools are caught in the middle but really, with all these letters saying every second counts, they are partly painting a picture of what they will deliver and it is false!

If the school are saying no you can't have a week away then they are imposing it on the family. The family could write to Ofsted and government and so could the school.

My kids school is doing well for ds, he is NT and not dyslexic, so I guess every second counts if you easier to educate!

GraysAnalogy (not sure what the funny face is for!) if the school said you can't buy a six foot dinosaur... oh i can't be bothered. If you don't know what I mean I am can't be bothered to argue. Schools and families should be working in partnership, this is just adversarial for no good reason.

The 'funny face' is because you brought up a completely different issue. Of course it's someone's right to buy what they wish with their own money, but it doesn't mean having the thing is an inherent right.

Your money therefore your human right to spend it on what you wish.
But that doesn't mean having a bottle of wine is a human right.

Get my meaning?

And my post didn't have anything to do with schools, it was about people's attitudes to holidays.

They administer it under the terms that they are told to by the DofE, conflating this with the fucking Nuremburg precedent is just bizzare. If they don't do it they risk funding cuts, they risk further inspections where they can fail because they haven't followed these rules.

Your comment about schools and teachers having too far a reach? Fairly erroneous, if your getting tax payer funded education, you have to agree with the provider that you will meet a set of parameters and so will they. If they haven't done theirs you can complain to a whole set of higher powers, and should have done so, you can even choose a different provider.

Speaking of rights, aren't schools in doing this protecting the educational rights of the child?

if your getting tax payer funded education, you have to agree with the provider that you will meet a set of parameters and so will they.

again, you are conflating knowing the rules and disagreeing with them. We know we have a duty to do certain things. We are disagreeing with having to do this thing.

Its someones right to spend their money on a 6 foot inflatable dinosaur if they so wish to do so but it doesn't mean having one is a right.

no one is saying you have a right to one unless you can pay for it. Don't you want to live in a country where people have the right to buy an inflatable dinosaur?

Speaking of rights, aren't schools in doing this protecting the educational rights of the child?

no they are not. they are box ticking.

The majority of people will be (and are) entirely reasonable. There is a small minority of people who don't and won't. Focus on them.

chilli As I said before, my opening post on here was to do with people's attitudes towards holidays and the culture in which holidays are seen as a right. Nothing to do with the issue of schools. Just sociological attitudes to holidays as a whole.

As I said before, my opening post on here was to do with people's attitudes towards holidays and the culture in which holidays are seen as a right.

it's possible that you don't want to live in country where people have the right to have a holiday they can pay for, but I don't. I don't want to be micromanaged by the government. I care a great deal about my children's education, so I say back off and let me handle it.

but I do*

The schools are of course just box ticking, but they have to do that for the reasons stated above.

Object to the rules fine, take your kid on holiday fine, but don't complain when you get the fine, you knew they concequences when you did it.

If you really object lobby your MP to get the DofE to change the rules, schools just do what they have to. Don't shoot the messenger.

Object to the rules fine, take your kid on holiday fine, but don't complain when you get the fine

again, this is the same "rules are rules" attitude. that's all you are repeating.

we know the rule, as stated many times. So, now we can't complain about it? what if schools were required to send a weekly inspector to make sure your home life is suitable? would that finally overstep your boundaries? or will rules be rules?

Yes, the route to changing may not be to yell at the head teacher (although, if enough head teachers objected, that may help the cause) and write your MP, but that's not the debate here.