To think this mother is right. Holiday in term time.

[derxa]

Normally I think children should not be taken out of school for holidays but this mother may have a point.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3559089/Mother-four-fined-60-truancy-taking-youngest-daughter-term-time-holiday-Government-free-meant-children-s-Easter-breaks-different-times.html

Good sad face as well

No the data you have from last year suggested a fall in holidays, I suspect there is a big fall in the number of holidays taken since say about 2010.

I don't know about pimms, but State schools can approve abscen too, lots of comments on here agree that. Lots just choose not to wave it through because of the problems it creates.

It's not helping with absence or achievement.

well, if, as I think, absence and achievement are caused by the same factors (illness to some extent, but more likely how functional parents are), it's then really hard to solve achievement problems. It's much easier to hit the system with a blunt instrument and release correlation type data making it look like you are doing something.

No the data you have from last year suggested a fall in holidays
A fall in unauthorised leave but a coincidentally similar increase in leave for 'sickness'. Overall absence did not go down. And persistent absence, the only one that makes a difference to achievement did not go down.

I suspect there is a big fall in the number of holidays taken since say about 2010.
Why? Fines were started in 2013.

but State schools can approve abscen too Yes, if it's for an approved exceptional circumstance.

Well because 2010 is prior to 2013? You know so if less people take holidays in school time after the fines are brought in it shows a correlation between the two.

There is no arguing with you though.

Schools can and do nod through the odd absence for holidays for exceptional circumstances. Many choose not to because of the issues that we have all outlined above.

they certainly had their fair share of attendance issues

Were they really issues tiggy? Did those 'middle class' children who had a week out to go on holiday go on to become failures in life?

Or did it actually not make very much difference to achievement at all?

So what should we do Jelly? Judge each application on merit?

Fine those going to magaluf and let those going on enriching holidays go?

Do you know how much time and money that would take up?

Judge each application on merit?

why judge? ask the parent if they are aware their child has not been at school.

then deal with the ones who have been absent habitually.

I suspect there is a big fall in the number of holidays taken since say about 2010.
Sorry, I read this as you saying that the number of holidays taken started falling since 2010. I see what you mean. But why wouldn't you look at the difference between 2013 and now as other factors are more likely to be the same?

Google is your friend: www.gov.uk/government/collections/statistics-pupil-absence

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

There is no arguing with you though. And yet you seem to be cracking on with it.

I'm with you Jelly-

A 2014 poll showed 71% of teachers opposed the fines, with 66% of teachers believing that term time holidays do not negatively impact on student learning. I am one of that 66%.

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2014-02-24/family-holiday-price-parliament-debate/

Further, the NUT oppose the fines and think they are unnecessary:

https://www.teachers.org.uk/news-events/press-releases-england/truancy

Also the Local Government Association wants a return to the old system:

http://schoolsimprovement.net/schools-should-to-be-able-to-approve-family-holidays-in-term-time-says-lga/

And finally the National Association head teachers, whilst they don't officially* want a return to the old system, agree that the new one is unworkable:
*
http://www.naht.org.uk/welcome/news-and-media/key-topics/school-management/naht-comment-on-term-time-holidayss**/
*
heads were split 50/50 on whether they would want to return to the old system.

I for one am far from convinced by the govt rhetoric about term time holidays, and would far rather see much greater action on dealing with truancy per se. Unfortunately, that's much less of a cash cow for the govt (dons cynical hat and runs away
)

I'm responding to this point btw...

And sorry for random bold print - I'm posting from my phone!

Or did it actually not make very much difference to achievement at all?

why deal with hard questions when you can just fine? it's so much easier.

Well.as a former slt member I certainly do think that it impacts attainment. Especially when families do it year in year out. Having the old system was time costly cause you had to look at attendances, reports etc before granting as well as checking dates with individual teachers against exams, controlled assessments etc.

The new system isn't ideal, buthe it works better.

Same amount of disruption going on now as before the fines though tiggy. Fines have not reduced absences. They aren't working if that's the aim.

And as a recently ex-teacher I don't agree that it causes disruption to the others in the class. I would be differentiating many ways anyway.

They do seem to have reduced the amount of full holidays taken in term time.

There are leaving children off for a fotonight in Feb and coming back with ski tans for example.

The new system isn't ideal, buthe it works better.

Works better in that SLT don't have to bother with making those decisions now? Because I can't see any other way that it 'works better'. It hasn't reduced absences,

It isn't just about the children who are taken out of school. It is also about learning and teaching being disrupted by children going on holidays during term time.

Can you please explain what difficulties these cause exactly...?

As with Jellyfish, as a teacher, I can't say it causes any particular difficulties either. Not given the differentiation I already do for my students and particularly if the children go at the right time. Under the old system we had that so much more. Now they just go whenever.

It seems 71% of teachers agree with me. These arguments I find lack credibility.

well, if, as I think, absence and achievement are caused by the same factors (illness to some extent, but more likely how functional parents are), it's then really hard to solve achievement problems. It's much easier to hit the system with a blunt instrument and release correlation type data making it look like you are doing something.

I for one am far from convinced by the govt rhetoric about term time holidays, and would far rather see much greater action on dealing with truancy per se. Unfortunately, that's much less of a cash cow for the govt (dons cynical hat and runs away [grin}).

This & this. Totally.

But I'm even boring myself with this topic now.

And parents who booked holidays oblivious to controlled assessments which teachers might be able to rearrange unlike exams. One teacher has posted before to say she was spending part of the school holidays helping those children catch up.

of course, if you do this, you risk your child missing gsces. Don't do it.

but it's not so easy when pay, promotion and even job security depend on getting them all through.

a different problem. Teachers shouldn't be assessed that way.

It seems 71% of teachers agree with me. These arguments I find lack credibility.

interesting. so actually supports this?

And parents who booked holidays oblivious to controlled assessments which teachers might be able to rearrange unlike exams. One teacher has posted before to say she was spending part of the school holidays helping those children catch up. Another poster said something along the lines of 'sod that let them fail' but it's not so easy when pay, promotion and even job security depend on getting them all through.

And that's where the old system of asking for permission worked so much better... Permission would never have been granted when there were controlled assessments. It could have prevented this problem entirely.

But I have to say in 19 years of teaching, over 5 institutions in three different counties, I have never had 5/6 or even 3/4 children off school at any one time due to holidays. I really don't think this is the norm.

If anything, most children tend to go in the summer when the bulk of the teaching has been done and everyone's on wind down, or at then end of terms when you tend not to be teaching crucial information anyway (I as do many other teachers tend to have that planned in as contingency time, so you can go back over anything not quite covered, or they didn't understand the first time etc...)

These problems that you speak of, just doesn't correspond to my experiences over the past 19 years, and I'm guessing Jelly's, or many of my teacher friends either.

Tell me Tiggy, have you ever taught yourself... Is this from your experience of problems, or just your projection of them?