To think this mother is right. Holiday in term time.

[derxa]

Normally I think children should not be taken out of school for holidays but this mother may have a point.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3559089/Mother-four-fined-60-truancy-taking-youngest-daughter-term-time-holiday-Government-free-meant-children-s-Easter-breaks-different-times.html

Good sad face as well

It's up to families where they holiday. Why should a family be forced to holiday in the uk in summer due to cost when they could have got abroad at Easter if holidays were all at the same time? They don't have to go abroad no but is it fair that one system favours the rich? Abroad holidays cost double in the summer and this can price people out. Poorer families don't have the luxury of just going in the summer. Yes they can holiday in the uk but it's educational to travel - to have a sense of things outside the uk.

If there were such a thing as a right to take a holiday abroad, all that that means is that it's the holiday companies breaching the right, not the government.

The holiday companies respond to supply and demand, they don't rip you off.

Great sad faces.

I do think she has a bit of a point, but I would just suck up the £60 as part of the holiday costs, I.e. factor the likelihood of a fine into the cost.

Alternatively she could have gone for a slightly shorter time or used a bit of the overlap and may not have been fined.

Yes they can holiday in the uk but it's educational to travel - to have a sense of things outside the uk.

I can think of very few things that are actually educational about a trip to Ibiza spent splashing about in a hotel pool looking miserable. And there are an awful lot of educational opportunities to be had whilst holidaying in the UK. I suspect the sort of people who think a week in a hotel in Ibiza is educational wouldn't know an educational opportunity if it came up and smacked them in the face. I'm not saying don't go to Ibiza (or anywhere else) but don't try to make it something it very clearly isn't.

There is no conspiracy, the old system was evidently unworkable

I never was part of the old system in the UK, but the system I grew up with was more like the old system here, and is still used where I am from. So, unworkable? sounds like a hyperbole.

deciding who can and who can't go on holiday.

you are right. They shouldn't be deciding who goes on holiday. Get rid of the authorized absences and focus on the kids habitually absent.

The system is designed for mass use, and part of that is agreeing to small constraints.

actually, that's not the aim now. Now schools are supposed to respond to individual needs.

This rigid system just can't account for the diversity of people here. We have people from all over the world in this country and many can't visit family because of the rigidity.

I can think of very few things that are actually educational about a trip to Ibiza spent splashing about in a hotel pool looking miserable. And there are an awful lot of educational opportunities to be had whilst holidaying in the UK.

perhaps you should head the new ministry of acceptable holidays.

No-one is saying people shouldn't go on holiday to Ibiza. What Permanently is saying, rightly, is that you can't claim the normal type of holiday in Ibiza is educational.

We've been to Majorca a couple of times and it's very educational - fantastic nature reserve to observe wetland birds, Minoan ruins (even more on Minorca), and an old nunnery up on the hill with fantastic views out over the island, spring almond and orange blossom, oranges growing on the tress, interesting new food, music, culture and language.
If you don't think any of that is educational then you have a narrow view of education which needs educating!
I've not yet been to Ibiza - I look forward to it

"Now schools are supposed to respond to individual needs."

No, they are supposed to respond to educational needs, not the need to go on holiday.

They do focus on habitual absentees, a lot, there is a lot of work goes on with social services etc for this .

"This rigid system just can't account for the diversity of people here. We have people from all over the world in this country and many can't visit family because of the rigidity."

People do get time off for this, but let me remind you that there are 13 weeks of the year to go and do this, not including the weekends!

People do get time off for this, but let me remind you that there are 13 weeks of the year to go and do this, not including the weekends!

if your family is from a hot climate in the northern hemisphere, going in august or july might be incredibly uncomfortable, especially for children who are used to UK weather. 6-7 weeks gone.

If you are into winter sports, there is a very narrow intersection between school hols and the winter mountain season.

Whatever the case, it should be up to the family, and not the government to decide what is important.

We aren't going to agree. I know of systems that operate just fine without this rigidity, so it's certainly workable. you are welcome to think that this level of government encroachment into private lives is acceptable, but I am never going to agree. For me, it's not about league tables, SATs, or whatever other flimsy excuse the government gives for doing this.

Totally agree chilli

We took the kids to Lapland a few years ago- they only had flights on Sunday's and Wednesdays and the last trip was during term time - to go after school term meant going over Xmas itself which we didn't want to do having a large close family at home.

We had no other option but to take the kids out. Anyone doing this trip also has to take out of school as they only run from end November til xmas.

The kids learnt loads on the trip - met local Sami people, drove huskies, went on a reindeer farm tour, took part in Lappish ceremonies etc, ate local food. It was amazing but if my kids went to another school id have been fined (as I said mine doesn't fine for holidays).

The kids learnt loads on the trip

A bit off topic, but I also think there are some valuable and just plain fun memories for kids. I have a family of four (DP and two DDs) and DD1 and I went for a trip by ourselves (before people go crazy, that was during hols and educational. aren't I great?), but that's certainly not her lasting memory. She just had tons of fun with her parent, and parental attention can be a little scarce at home (we live in London, and both have busy jobs). She was 5 when the trip happened (more than two years ago) and she still talks about like it happened last month. She made a scrap book about the trip, which she just loves.

I have sympathy if it it to visit a relative who lives abroad, or if it was for a special event that perhaps you would only do once in a lifetime. However, school is more important than Ibiza.

"Whatever the case, it should be up to the family, and not the government to decide what is important."

That's your libertarian streak right there, you don't like being told what to do, you think you should decide what is right for you and yours at all times. The winter sports point? Words fail me tbh, Oh its my right to go skiing? Tell you what you could use a ski slope? Artificial snow?

That seems to be the point of the thread: "the government can't tell me what to do."

Fine, but the government can and will tell state funded schools what to do, and by taking part in state funded education you have to take that into account.

Lurked

Thing is government changed rules to say only authorise in extreme circumstances.but lot of reasons people go abroad e.g to visit long distance family etc could be considered extreme but heads just got scared and made a blanket no.

Heads can still authorise (hence wording extreme) - it's just that many don't. Our head is the only school for miles who still authorises. My friend teaches there and even though Ofsted have been in recently no one has even mentioned it. The head authorises two weeks as long as attendance is ok. This makes me think schools seem to be able to do it as long as they justify it. The problem is that there's this blanket no whereas there are genuine reasons for some people that should be considered exceptional.

I don't think the system really is that rigid. It's people's thinking that is rigid. The absence being unauthorised doesn't stop anyone from going if they want to. It simply means you might be charged a fine, but even that's not definite. The government isn't stopping you from going, it's just trying to discourage you. Bit like the taxes and legislation around smoking. You can still smoke if you want to.

Very good point, and well made.

However, school is more important than Ibiza.

I can see that for A level or GCSE students, but I doubt that for primary aged children, especially for the younger ones. There is mounting evidence that school for very young children is basically useless (my full time schooling started a full two years after kids in the UK today). So I am highly dubious that a day or two here or there, especially at a young age, will do any harm. And those all important days just before holidays when many schools often replace work with play/movie time can probably be skipped without lasting effects.

When did primary education become so serious? Perhaps all this competition for better results, league tables and PISA rankings is good for us (parents, politicians) and not so great for kids. I think we need to lighten up a bit. let the four, five, six, and maybe even the seven year olds have a little fun with their parents.

That's your libertarian streak right there

it's ok to have a libertarian streak. I am not sure why you think it is an insult. and no, I don't like being told what to do, especially by some bureaucrats who likely have far less experience with education or children (especially MY children) than I do.

Words fail me tbh, Oh its my right to go skiing?

words fail me too. If you don't think it's my (or your or anyone else's) right to go skiing, then we really will never see eye to eye. So having children means you effectively have to give up something you may really love doing, and would love to share with your children, for what exactly?

It's not a right to go skiing don't be silly.

Having children in state schools means you have a contract with the school. They have one with the dofe, I agree that exceptional circumstances can be made, but overall it's a partnership, they have constraints, you have to acknowledge and work with them.

Lurked "... the government can and will tell state funded schools what to do, and by taking part in state funded education you have to take that into account."

That's tax payer funded of course!

Chili " So having children means you effectively have to give up something you may really love doing, and would love to share with your children, for what exactly?"

It's the 'for what' which is so important, does the time out make a massive difference to children? If children are doing well they would still be doing well, if struggling they would still be struggling. But a family holiday could be a real high spot in a child's year and it may not be possible to go abroad or have the kind of holiday wanted in the annual Easter or summer holidays. Especially with kids at different schools.

However, school is more important than Ibiza.

Families spending time together is enormously important. The girl also had 100% attendance so far this year and it was only a week.

There is a lot of snobby sneering over this type of holiday on this thread. Personally going to Ibiza isn't my thing, but we're all different. I don't think that's relevant tbh.

That's the other thing I couldn't understand.. how does she have 4 kids at 4 different schools? There was always going to be difficulties one way or the other.

Toby - I agree with you. It was only a week, and she did have good attendance, and the destination isn't the main point of the article.

However, the article also centred about her being fined for taking her kid out of school. Fining parents for term time holiday isn't new, so she must have known there was a chance of this.

Even in Easter the holiday must have cost a lot of money, as Easter is a peak time, so £60 is hardly a lot.

Fining parents for term time holidays is old news. I supposed the new rules meaning schools could have different term times is new news though.

It's not a right to go skiing don't be silly.

that's not the point. My right to ski is greater than the states right to fine me for doing it.

My right to ski is greater than the states right to fine me for doing it.

The state doesn't fine anyone for going skiing.