to think it's unnecessary for both parents to go to toddler group?

[LissaLoves]

On a Wednesday I take 15 month old DS to a sensory arty type group in the morning and him and his 4 year old sister to a toddler group in the afternoon. In between, we usually have lunch out - either a picnic at the park near DDs nursery or at the cafe near there so we're out from 10.30-3.30 when we return from school with DD8.

After a chat about DP needing to get more involved with the DC (currently they want nothing to do with him and for him to not do anything for them) he suggested that he come along on a Wednesday rather than do his hobby like he usually does when he has a Wednesday off (usually alternate weeks.) I agreed it was a good way to get involved but I don't see that we should both go; I think it's a one parent thing and that it'd be ideal if I could have that time without them to get some jobs done. He's not backing out saying he doesn't think he can go alone I've offered to go together the first time so he knows where he's going etc. but he really thinks we should go together each time.

Aibu to think that toddler groups like this are not meant for a family outing?

Wow that really sounds crazy. For one, his cluelessness is not an excuse to exclude himself from childcare. I don't understand how he chose to have three kids without being interested in their care at all. I don't understand men like this who have children.

He needs to pick an activity to do with the kids ALONE. If it means staying home and playing a game with them then let him do that. You CANNOT be there. He will be clueless for a while and then he will figure it out. He has to figure out what to do with kids. Maybe he's just intimidated going to a toddlers group full of other moms. In 8 years of having kids he's clueless?? Very strange.

I also think I'm missing something here. He's their father and he couldn't work out how to lift his child out of a bath?? I'd be concerned about leaving the children with him if he's this hopeless, but then that's just feeding into his patheticness.

Asd is often genetic

A toddler group is hardly likely to be very bonding for him and the DC. Could you do a couple together, then alternate

Sounds like he's either clueless or doing that teenage thing of doing a job so badly and making so much extra work for you in the hope of not being asked to do it again............either way, not something I could tolerate in a partner and co parent.....

Oh dear.

I think he needs to start with a different activity. My DH hated groups and found them very difficult, he says it's hard being the only bloke. I'd suggest your DH finds something he can manage himself such as just playing, or Sunday morning breakfast, or taking them out in the garden or to the park, or reading their bedtime story, or taking them to a farm with a season ticket. If it's stuff you don't normally do, that's better in some ways, and it might help to pick something where he doesn't have an audience. But the bath thing is frankly worrying.

Is he better with the oldest than with the little ones? If so that might be a starting point.

OP YANBU. I agree that DH sounds like he has something more than just lazy going on though.

Start small...things like having him make the picnic lunch or pack the bag for an outing...the prep is half the battle isn't it?

Then move on to bigger things such as collecting or delivering to parties...and yes, go along with him to toddler group first few times.

My friend's DH is like this and he has Aspergers. He couldn't cope with parties for instance but my friend has made him learn....he goes now and does his share.

I don't understand the bath situation. At all.

When you asked him what he was thinking, what was his answer?!

I bet he is shy, he may see it as a very female environment. Our local toddler group would be about 15 mums to three dads or granddads, tops. I think that could take some getting used to. Could you go with him the first few times? Then leave him to it?

My kids still want me to do stuff like bath and bed routine for our 5 year old. We say no, daddy does bath and bed Mon-Fri and I do weekends. DS is used to it.

It could be because the kids don't want him to do stuff that he doesn't want to do it (or feel confident doing it) but that is a vicious circle and if he never does things to look after them will never learn.

Agree Also known as being intimidated by his own dc which he's fully admitted this week. I don't see how he'll ever gain confidence in dealing with there if I'm always there 'just in case.' this is your issue but also think slowly does it. You've gotten into this situation, somehow, it won't change overnight. i do know one friend who had a child later in life, like me, and strong willed dd, like mine, and she was totally intimidated by her dd (I wasn't to the same extent but easily there but for the grace of God go I) so I do understand parenting can be harder for some ... but he must learn.

LissaLoves re "He is clueless. He wants to add deciding how to improve things to my never ending list of everything else I have to do." I hear you, that sounds crap. BUT please do try and work with him. Explain, we must work out a plan together and then stick to it.

RE "I returned to DD4 screaming the house down and cowering in the corner of the bath facing the wall. She'd been in there for 50 minutes" Did you talk to your dd and find out what happened? Why was she screaming why wouldn't she get out of the bath?

ADS can be hard to cope with. My dd is not on the spectrum but has autistic tendencies and between 6 and 8 she was a right handful, luckily dh has been bathing her since day one as I was quite ill when she was born and he had to be quite hands on from the word go.

I've cared for kids who can be quite a handful and once looked after a child who was most uncooperative at bath time, going under the water so it almost looked like she was trying to drown herself! It can be scary! Not my own kid in this case, I was an au pair! Of course this is your dh's own kid (I presume he is dad to all of them?) But if he feels he cannot cope then he does need some help.

I'm a bit surprised, you've had three kids together and neither of you has addressed this?

I'm assuming your dd would not get out of the bath, refused to be lifted out and just screamed and he panicked a bit and did not know what to do in that situation? Is that right?

I do remember the first few times our dd had a meltdown, aged 3 and then aged 4 maybe, she was beside herself and it was impossible to do anything. Usually it was before bed and never happened when she was in the bath but had it happened then I can imagine it would have been hard to deal with.

I think I still would have pulled the plug on the bath water and once the water was out bundled her into a big towel and out of bathroom to warmth of bedroom... but .... I do remember dd running round the hotel bedroom aged 4, naked because would not get dressed and we had a family event to go to. She would not dress herself or allow us to dress her until we chose something (old and fairly grubby looking) which she felt was suitable.

Eventually she was dressed but had we tried to force her to put on the nice outfit we had ready she could easily have ended up injuring an arm or something!

So if a tantrum or meltdown is in full swing I can imagine any parent could find that hard (or am I conjecturing too much!).

Can he start by just taking one of them? If he's never had sole responsibility taking both to toddler group could be daunting however once he sees how they work and isn't intimidated then he takes both

Yes it is unnecessary for both parents to go to toddler group imo. But then that may depend on what you want to get out of them.

When I had my first, it was a chance to get out of the house and have some adult conversation while the babies laid there and gurgled. I didn't do them with ds1 because I wasn't in the right place to be sociable with strangers mentally and felt much happier at home. With the twins, the twin specific group was about being able to take two small babies/toddlers and have conversations with parents who had been there and done it ahead of me, and reassuring other twins parents who came with their younger ones. This was the one group where sometimes dad's came too. Dh didn't and didn't want to.

I also took them to a children's centre group where the focus was very much doing things with your child(ren) rather than gossiping with other mum's. This was another useful group for me as one leader would help with one twin while I played with the other and we'd work on them playing together too.

It is worth looking at the Childrens centre as they often have sessions in the weekend which are just for dad and the children.

Groups sold as 'parent and baby/toddler' are always very heavy on the women front and that can be off putting for men. Heck I found one group off putting because it was just a large group of women who already knew each other who dominated.

It does seem like you and dh have got so used to you being the default parent that dh has learned not to do anything. It could be that you and he don't do things the same way. I had to learn to let go of dh not doing things my way. As long as they got done I swallowed the irritation. And never make it seem like they're doing you a favour with the kids either. Dh is not a babysitter and I even correct the kids when they say daddy is babysitting!

How on board is dh with dd's asd assessment? Dh thankfully is hugely on board with our ds1 and the concerns we have about his behaviour. But other people think we just need to punish/discipline/ignore/beat him [more]. If dh was one of those people I quite imagine we would have a much harder time parenting as we'd be in too separate books let alone not on the same page.

My DP is coming to playgroup with us on Friday, he's on holiday from work this week and he's never been before, he's actually really excited to see our little girl at playgroup! He also comes to Baby Sensory occasionally. I see no harm it, I love that he wants to involved in the activities our daughter does.

How can your DP not know what to do when a child is in the bath and is cold - it's not rocket science, I mean he knows what to do when he's cold in the bath doesn't he?!

Obviously he doesn't have a job op so must be home all the time. He can't hold down a job can he, not if he can't take a child out of a bath.

I don't think it's weird to go together. Just go with him the first time to introduce him, then let him go on his own after that. I found toddler groups really intimidating at first, had to force myself to go. My DH was the same, especially being the only man.

There was also a Dad's group at the local children's centre on alternate Saturday mornings. DH was a wuss about going at first but really grew to love it. They did loads of outings and it genuinely really helped him bond with and learn to look after baby DD without defaulting to me for everything. And I didn't worry because there were children's centre staff to back him up if he panicked or didn't know what to do. Is there anything like that he could try locally?

To be honest if he's so inept that he'd leave a child in a cold bath, I can't believe you'd be happy for him to go out alone with them.

I don't think anything will be achieved in your situation by both of you going to toddlers together - after all you are all together at home but it doesn't help because he is physically there but leaving the actual parenting to you. At toddlers I would guess from what you have said about him that he will just be a passenger, so it will be a pointless exercise.

In a more general sense both parents going to toddlers together occasionally is OK, but people will back off from chatting to you if you do it every week - its always easier to pick somebody on their own to chat to, most people go to toddlers as sole parent and people on their own chat to other people on their own by preference usually. I know a couple who are joined at the hip and they isolate themselves that way - though maybe that is what they want :o

Perhaps your DH would benefit from parenting classes, if he seems to need to be taught what to do rather than use his common sense. That bath example is baffling though - it rather sounds as if your 4 yo would have been safer left with my 10 yo... or my 8 yo... or your own 8 yo probably or any upper primary age kid with younger siblings of their own... as a babysitter than her own father there must be something behind such an extreme lack of confidence/ initiative.

Why you don't you go together once or twice so that he can get a feel for your routine and how the day goes, then he might feel more confident doing it on his own?

If he's nervous about it then that could be the best way to overcome it.

I think the toddler group is a red herring. My DH has our toddler on his own one day a week and does lots of things without me at other times. He'd not be very keen about a toddler group - mainly mums round here and he's quite an introvert. However, they do lots of lovely things together and always get out the house if the weather is ok.

I think if your DH has done very little on his own until now it would be intimidating to suddenly look after 2 young children all day. I think it's probably best (for the children as well) for him to work up to it gradually.

I've seen both parents go to toddler groups loads of times. Very common where I live: YABU to say toddler groups aren't meant for a family outing. You can say you don't want to go as a family, but it's not your place to decide that for others.

But I don't think that's really the point here. Clearly both parents attending is entirely legitimate, if that's what suits, but that doesn't seem to be what you're actually asking. It is an issue that he's so unable to function with the kids and it's fine for you to want him to take them out so you can get some housework done. YANBU to have concerns there.

If I'm remembering your previous thread correctly (was it your DH refusing to change the DCs routine to one that works better for you all because he would miss out on "family time", whilst simultaneously refusing to give up any of the time he spends on his hobby in favour of "family time"?) your problem is your H is a knob end. You'd all be better off without him.

Well he hadn't managed to wash her in the fifty mins in the bath and then decided to pour water over her hair once it was cold so she started crying as he didn't warn her. She then asked him to pass her a toy and he said yes but then put it out of reach and said 'but not til you're washed.' He then kept sternly telling her 'that's enough', 'stop crying', 'you won't be having any stories if you carry on' and so on and this made the crying worse. She told me this and he agreed...! When I returned he was standing over her so very intimidating for her, no doubt.

That's just fucking nasty.

He sounds horrible and utterly insensitive. (Sorry).

Tonight I told 4 year old that daddy would bath her while I took DS to collect DD8 from a party. I returned to DD4 screaming the house down and cowering in the corner of the bath facing the wall. She'd been in there for 50 minutes and was cold but DP didn't know what to do, so just did nothing

What the FUCK?

I agree with a pp. Either he's a dick it needs some sort of medical assessment.

How can you live with someone like this?