To consider homeschooling DD from ages 5-7? School sounds horrific right now!

[Absofrigginlootly]

Yes yes I know there is a homeschooling section of MN, but I'm watching a current thread very similar to what I want to ask and it's not very active right now so thought I would try here for more traffic. So shoot me

Aaaaaaanyway, DD only 18 months old so we have a while to decide but I'm very curious to hear from parents of children currently started school/in lower primary, teachers and other home educations parents.

I keep hearing about how schools and pupils are buckling under all this SATS pressure/under funding etc, and have read quite a bit about the advantages of delaying formal schooling until aged 7.

I am a SAHM and DH earns a good wage so that's not an issue. I'm educated to postgrad level although zero experience of teaching. Have no plans to send DD to preschool, so she wouldn't be starting school until 5 years at the earliest (Autumn baby).

DH is not convinced and tbh I need to find out more before I can make a decision....but where to start? Google is not very helpful.

Any advice or suggestions most welcome :)

I think at least from age 3 and a half going to preschool has been amazing for my DS - from a social point of view. He had made friends and has great fun there. I don't care about him learning anything academic at this age - it's about learning to play with other children.

I think you are only seeing the downsides about attending school and forgetting about all the upsides. Make sure you have a balanced view before you make a decision.

Have you looked at alternative schooling options? My son is 3 and my plan is for him to attend a forest school that does no formal learning until he is 7 or 8. I may start him 2-3 days a week this September and then let him go full time next September. Though I plan to discuss flexi-schooling with the school and if that's in anyway an option (and his preference) he can do 3-4 days a week at school instead of 5. That way he can have a day or 2 to chill out at home during the week as our weekends tend to be family adventure days and everyone needs decompression time.

He can already read a little and do quite a bit of maths, which he has learned through osmosis, so I assume that he'll keep on with learning 'academically' at home and use his school time for having fun with similar aged children. Then when he is older I'll assess what is suiting him and he can homeschool full-time if that's the best option. We have already made strong connections with all the local homeschooling groups locally and in the surrounding counties and will continue to maintain those networks. In fact at least 3 other families with children of the same age as my son are planning similar, and we're working with the forest school to share time and arrange meet ups and to do co-op homeschooling as our children get older.

Pupils who are buckling under SATS pressure are going to a shit school.

I'm in Wales so we don't have SAT's, but have annual national reading and numeracy tests from Year 2 onwards which are very similar.

Ds1 did them last year for the first time. No stress or pressure put on the kids at all.

When ds1 did his first tests, I asked him how they'd gone and what it was like all having to do it (because it was something new). He did a at me and said 'well it wasn't really different to the tests we usually do'. And then I discovered that from Reception, the school he was in gave the kids an assessment every month to do under 'exam' conditions to check their progress/understanding (obviously, very basic in R). I never even realised...and neither did the kids. To them, it was just a piece of work that the teacher asked them to do once a month, at their usual tables, where they had to be quiet until it was finished.

I think regular assessments/tests/exams is a good thing for kids to get used to, regardless of their results.

YANBU. Some of the comments on this thread are ridiculous.

And FWIW, I don't think children 'fail' at school. I think some schools fail at teaching some children. A one size fits all approach does not work for everyone.

If your husband earns a good salary and you are comfortably off with you being a SAHM then why not look at going back to work in a couple of years and using your salary for private education.

Private schools aren't necessarily better than state at all but what you will get is choice. So, whatever it is that is worrying you about state schools and making you think it 'sounds horrific' can be avoided without having to resort to home ed.

If you are worried that state schools don't extend young children enough - pick an academic 'hot house' pre prep.

If you are worried that state schools (forced into it by the government) push young children too hard - pick a small, non academic pre prep that focuses on play and forest school, not SATS.

If you are worried that state schools start formal education too young and are too structured - pick a steiner private school.

If you are worried that 30 per class is too big for young children - pick a small pre prep with 8-12 children per class.

YANBU but it might be better, as some people have said, to wait until your child is older before deciding.

Schools are a very artificial environment. Nowhere else in society are people compelled to spend time with others with whom they might have nothing in common besides being born in the same year. Children naturally learn from others (including older children) who are more experienced, and can consolidate that knowledge through passing it on. The comment made a couple of pages back about homeschooled children seeming 'older' and this being perceived as a negative thing is very interesting - if anything I think social development is hindered by not having a more organic, mixed-age group to socialise with.

That said, school is in many ways the default option in our society, and many children get on well with and enjoy school. If a child is an extrovert, and developmentally average, they're likely to get on very well at school and enjoy it. If they're likely to be significantly ahead of or behind their peers academically, school won't cater well for them, academically or socially. Children who are ahead will be held back, and those who are behind will be made to feel like failures instead of being allowed to develop at their own rate. Introverted or anxious children may find school overwhelming, especially with the current test-focused climate. School teaches conformity - if a child is the type to fit in with their peer group (and I don't mean that in any way pejoratively, it's just an observation) they may not even notice this, but if they're different in any way, it can be difficult for them.

Not being in school at 5, or taking formal tests at 7, will not impact your child's ability to sit GCSE or other exams as a teenager. It's as silly as the notion that young children need to be dressed identically at school to prepare them for dressing appropriately in the workplace in their twenties! All the homeschooled children that I've known have been able to sit exams either as external candidates or by choosing to attend college as a teenager, and they've done very well.

The view expressed by some that you shouldn't homeschool because 'your child might seem different to others' is an incredibly narrow-minded one. As if difference were a fault needing to be stamped out by schools! But 18 months is a little early to make a decision and ideally you should choose based on your child's temperament and learning needs - whether that's homeschooling, a particular state school with an ethos you support, or private if that's an option.

(For context - school did not suit me at all, for various reasons, and my personal experiences were extremely negative even as a small child. I've since worked in early years and KS1 and seen some children really thrive and flourish in the school environment, and others for whom school is a constant struggle - not because the teachers and other professionals are incompetent or uncaring in the slightest, but because of the environment and the structure of the system. I don't have children yet myself but the concept of childhood within education, particularly home education, is a research interest of mine.)

I'd wait and see your child's personality first.

Both my girls were chomping at the bit to go to school at 4, totally ready for learning. They love school, love learning, and dd1 (y2) is under no pressure at all for her sats.

My nephew is still not ready for formal learning at 6; he can't give a shit for grammar, but is fascinated in space etc.

Horses for courses.

Sofira - I completely disagree with your generalisation that children that are significantly academically ahead will be held back and that school won't cater for them.

I don't doubt that it may be the case sometimes, in some schools but it's not a universal fact.

I have two dc who are both academically very ahead of their peers (with ds1 being primarily in maths and ds2 reading/English in general) and the provision the school makes for them is fantastic.

Ds1 is in Year 3 and does his maths lessons with the Year 6 class. He also has extra maths lessons with an external maths lecturer once a fortnight with a couple of the Year 5 and 6 boys (I appreciate we're very lucky in this because the lecturer is on the board of governors so I think it's a voluntary arrangement).

Ds2 (Year 1) is treated similarly and joins Ds1's Year 3 class for group reading and book discussions.

A lot of learning is individual anyway IMO with the child doing the same kind of activity but to their own level. I can remember helping in ds1's class when he was in reception and watching an activity with making sums out of beads. He was socially still a 4 year old and just joined in with the others, doing the same activity - but the difference being when the others were doing 3 + 2 sums, he was doing 346 + 287 with his beads and using a pen and paper to work out the answer. And when ds2 is set a half term project to write a story about a dinosaur, and the LO for the class is to write at least 6 sentences - he gets the same project but with a LO to write at least a full A4 page.

Advanced and bright kids getting bored and behaving difficultly in class is largely a myth IMO. A bright and engaged child will be proactive and find work for themselves or do class work/research/essays to a higher and more detailed level IME.

I think it sounds like you haven't explored the options. Why not actually visit some schools? Presumably if you return to work you would be able to use your salary towards an independent school so you probably have quite a lot of options. There's no point taking the decision to home ed based on random anecdotes on the internet.

(Independent schools also obviously don't do sats)

Jasper is right - assessment wise, in England, things have changed dramatically for the worse this year. Ds2 did KS2 SATS 3 years ago, they just don't compare with the shit ds3 is doing.

However, that doesn't mean you have to stess the child out. Will be interesting to see how schools protect a more balanced curriculum in the upcoming years. (Although having to retake SATS in year 7 isn't going to help).

I would say that it does vary from school to school in England. Dc1 is in year 1 now, we didn't get out first choice of primary school, the one we wanted seemed better, great SATs results and as we are an 11+ area, huge % passing. However, I'm now so glad dc1 is at the "worse" school - the outstanding school has been sendin home lots of homework from the start, is a lot stricter (lots of dc1's friends went there), and while I think he'd cope as he's quite good at academic stuff, I don't like it, and hate that some of the children are talking about being "thick" and are aware about other children being better than them at some things.

Preschools are usually just structured playing - definitely worth it if you will be back in the uk before she's 3. (A good one will involve children getting filthy IMO, the forest school movement might suit you, unfortunately there's not a forest school near us for dc2's pre-school)

Iwantmymum

You are completely judging. You have no idea what the OP's personal/financial circumstances are - she could be massively independently wealthy! She could have put in legal measures and agreements that mean that she will not be left up shit creek. To come onto a thread about homeschooling and make it about how naive and stupid SAHMs are is really really shit! And actually very insulting. You are insulting the Op's intelligence and judgement. It didn't work for you - and that's awful. But it does not give you the right to lecture every other SAHM about being a fucking "trailing spouse" ?????

It's worth looking around schools a bit before you decide. I was seriously considering home educating DD, but I went to have a look around my local primary school and was amazed by how good it was, and realised that there was no way I could offer DD as good an experience as that provided by the school. I don't think that is the case for all schools, though. My local primary school is very lovely.

She DID NOT ask your opinion on whether she was being unreasonable to go abroad with her partner. She did NOT ask your opinion on whether or not she is missing out on 'experience' by not being at work.

She DID ask for advice and opinions on home schooling.

You are a hypocrite to get snotty with me for swearing when you know that the term "Trailing Spouse" is a horrible one but you still use it to describe someone.

My boys, 9 and 5 go to the local state primary and are not stressed at all. They have very little homework, younger one has reading every day for 10 mins, and a sheet for the term of suggested pieces of homework linked to their topic - he's upstairs building a rocket out of Lego to take in tomorrow. He does one item from the list each week, there would not be any repercussions if he didn't do any. Older one has spellings and times tables to practise and once a week "talking homework" to prepare for Big Write. He wasn't remotely stressed about Yr2 SATS, they did them in class without any fuss being made. They are offered lots of after school clubs and activities and they often have times where they do something that at least on the surface is non-academic, school trips, bike to school, school panto, sports day - there is always something going on.
I have some sympathy for the idea that we start some children too young, my DD is a summer born with development delays and I'm considering applying to drop her back a year so she starts reception at CSA of five. I'd be very wary of putting a child into school at KS2 when expectation are that much higher that they settle into structured lessons, having missed out on the gradual transition that YR and KS1 gives them. All the friendship groups will be well established by then and you'd have to hope somebody leaves your preferred school at the right time.
I can't understand why you'd object to pre-school ( sorry if you already explained I haven't RTFT) as surely what 3 yr old need most is social time with peers whilst playing with plasticine??

Grease - you're right, I shouldn't have made such a broad generalisation. I'm really pleased to learn that your DC aren't bored at school and are able to work at their own levels, even if those are far ahead of others their age. It sounds like a fantastic school!

The schools I've worked in have all had a strict policy that children have to stay with their year group for all lessons, and that they could be extended to the 'above expectations' level for their age, but not set work or writing targets meant for the next year group, if that makes sense. It meant that the most able children weren't encouraged to move forward. I did my best as an educator, but I always felt I was working against the school structure in doing so.

Thinking about it, the reason I asserted it so strongly was because I was comparatively able in my own childhood - I went to school already knowing how to read fluently, but was made to sit through endless phonics sessions anyway, and was told I had to start at the beginning of the reading scheme like everyone else, despite the fact that I was reading chapter-books at home. My memories of primary school are all either of being bored or extremely anxious over the behaviour of other children. It didn't suit me. But that was many years ago and you may well be right that in many schools today things are very different. It depends on the school - but you're right, it's not a universal fact that more able children are let down! Thank you for challenging my assumptions a bit. :)

Great post Sofira.

Grease - "Advanced and bright kids getting bored and behaving difficultly in class is largely a myth IMO. A bright and engaged child will be proactive and find work for themselves or do class work/research/essays to a higher and more detailed level IME.
"

Just because this happened with your children doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. There are plenty of parents who have had this experience. Perhaps the fact that your children's school does seem to make an effort to differentiate means that it is less likely to happen there.

hasn't happened with your children.

Thank you once again for all your replies, very helpful reading! I'll show the thread to DH at some point so we can chat about it more.

iwantmymum I appreciate the concern and I'm very sorry about what happened to you, but I'm genuinely not being naive or irresponsible with our decision for me to be a SAHM. I'm not going to go into details but our family works better from a financial/practical/emotional point of view for me to stay at home. Can I very politely request that the subject is closed? :)

Again without going into details or going off on a tangent private school is just out of reach for us really, particularly as we'd like another DC. The local state schools to us are 'outstanding' ofsted... Although like someone else said that's not necessarily on the factors one might consider to be actually important.

Lots to think about and some very useful and helpful suggestions. I'm glad I started the thread! :)

Nowhere else in society are people compelled to spend time with others with whom they might have nothing in common besides being born in the same year

ever been to work? Apart from the age thing, you have to spend time with people with whom you might have nothing in common. It's called real life.

My son is in Y2 and thrives at school, he loves it. He is not even aware he's being prepped for SATS and that's what I'd expect from a good school. It depends on where you live as to whether there is a shortage of places. We have no problems in that respect where we are.
Socially, school has done my son a world of good, meeting kids from all backgrounds helps him work out who he is comfortable with.
I can confidently say that school has not been horrific in any sense, quite the opposite in fact. It's been an enlightening and enjoyable experience for him, if I had not let him have that I personally feel I would have done him a disservice.
It's up to you but I know home schooling would not have been the right choice for us.

A few people have expressed concern that a child who is home educated until the age of seven or later will find starting school a difficult adjustment. None of the HE kids I know have found it so. You might expect it would be, if you are picturing how long it takes four year olds to settle in when they begin school. But seven year olds aren't four, and so it is easier for them. They have greater maturity, perspective, and life experience. I don't think the other kids in my older dd's class were really aware that she'd never been to school before. For a child with a reasonable level of social awareness, it isn't hard: she just did whatever the people around her were doing.

There definitely are some HE children who would find adjusting to school aged seven a tall order. Often, they may have been home educated earlier BECAUSE school is so obviously a poor fit for them. That isn't going to change, whether they go to school or not. I'm convinced my younger daughter would be all at sea if I sent her to school now. Sending her at four wouldn't have changed that; it only would have given her an early start on being unhappy.

If a child really did need three years at school just to adapt to the environment, that would say to me that school was profoundly unsuited to her needs.