To become a vegan?

[MissDallas]

OK, I am not your typical hippy type, I have hair extensions and I like fake tans and I have a corporate job. Not sure what that's got to do with it, but wanted to paint a picture.

I have been thinking about becoming a vegan for some time. I hate the way animals are treated in factory farming, it is so cruel. Also in my line of work I have come to know several facts about how meat is produced, mutated chickens, etc and it's awful. I used to think they were urban myths but sadly not. The horse in the ready meals scandal got me thinking as well. We can't even be sure what animal we are eating. Also the hormones, ammonia and other shit used in food... it's all horrible.

On a personal level, I would like to be healthier. I'm always stressed and tired, I'm also overweight.

I keep reading lately about the benefits of a plant-based diet. And people who do 42 day juice fasts and complete my change their health and become happier as a result. It's got me thinking... should I become a vegan?

Is anybody else considering it? Is anybody here a vegan? What do I need to know? Can a vegan diet give you all the nutrients you need? AIBU? Thanks.

Tigger I don't have a problem with that, just interested how veganism tends to bring out defensiveness in people, on both sides and what people's motivation is on threads like these!

I'm not a vegan but the most compelling argument for me is the environmental one... I haven't seen anyone picking over the facts of that though so assume it's not disputed?

And obviously the animal welfare one is a given...

No defensiveness from this side at all. I merely dislike when groups of people (or individuals) assert their opinions as fact. And then they got rather irate when it was pointed out that it was not fact.

There are counter-arguments to the enviromental side, but not my area and I have no idea of the validity of them.

I have nothing at all against a vegan diet or vegans (I spent a year vegan myself), I only have a problem with sweeping claims and anti-scientific rhetoric.

Tigger you said Thats s TV programme, not a scientific study.

The TV programme was looking at various real scientific studies.
The programme makers were not just making up facts.

So, what ever the limits of the various studies on Veganism, I wanted to make that clear in case anyone else wants to watch.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b076zf93/how-to-stay-young-episode-1
22:23 minutes in.

This is from the Guardian Review:
www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2016/apr/08/review-how-to-stay-young
Why, for instance, do the inhabitants of Loma Linda, 60 miles from LA, live up to 10 years longer than the average Californian? Could it be because the town has one of the largest concentrations in the world of Seventh Day Adventists, a faith that encourages vegetarianism? A large-scale study suggests so. Veganism is the healthiest diet of all, reducing the risks of cancer, heart attacks and strokes. (Also: nuts. Eat lots of nuts, basically.)

Contessa Pubmed sounds very useful.

Congratulations Mingomeantime on running the marathon! That book sounds good too.

The TV programme was looking at various real scientific studies. The programme makers were not just making up facts.

But how where they interpreting and presenting them? IF you've taken from the programme that there is any concrete evidence that the vegan diet is superior to any other, you have misunderstood.

As for this: Why, for instance, do the inhabitants of Loma Linda, 60 miles from LA, live up to 10 years longer than the average Californian? Could it be because the town has one of the largest concentrations in the world of Seventh Day Adventists, a faith that encourages vegetarianism? A large-scale study suggests so. Veganism is the healthiest diet of all, reducing the risks of cancer, heart attacks and strokes. (Also: nuts. Eat lots of nuts, basically.)

That is classic media interpretation of science. That is two questions and then a mention of a study, and then a sweeping statement of "fact" that is not actually the conclusion of the study just mentioned!

You just proved my point for me, so thanks!

TiggerPiggerPooBumWee,

I was interested by the programme. It may not have been based on the level of research needed to write for D Phil in science at a top university, but the research and examples shown were gathered by the BBC which is at least fairly reputable and could be food for thought if not action.The Guardian thought the point about Vegans interesting too.

This is all just a counter-balance the commonly held view,shared by a good many people still, who think the reverse: that you will be very ill as a matter of course if you don't eat meat, let alone if you don't eat meat fish or dairy.

I thought other people on this thread might interested in seeing the part about vegans - including the OP, especially as it is on BBC iPlayer for the the moment. There are other very healthy vegan foods also mentioned earlier on including pulses.

There is not really a problem Tiggy.
I realise one needs to be to cautious of 'research' and that the media can over simplify or even be wrong. Other people here would certainly realise this too.

I really don't see what you are arguing about here. I've repeatedly said my only point is that there is no real evidence that the vegan diet is the healthiest one out there. And there isn't.
The programme was interesting. The studies are interesting. The guardian article was badly written (your quote above shows that!) None of that changes my point, which is factually correct.

This is all just a counter-balance the commonly held view,shared by a good many people still, who think the reverse: that you will be very ill as a matter of course if you don't eat meat, let alone if you don't eat meat fish or dairy

You don't counter balance one silly stance with another equally silly stance. Stating all vegans are healthier is just as stupid as saying all vegans are unhealthier.

I am not interested in any more of this business Tigger. Point taken, thank you for explaining.

Kind. It is a TV show. They compared the findings of study into the adventist's longevity, none of whom smoke or drink, with the inhabitants of an area that apparently live on largely processed food! In a study combining the findings from 3 adventist cohorts the results for veganism were more subtle. It showed that vegetarianism reduced cardiovascular disease (most significantly in men), type 2 diabetes and some cancers. Interestingly, it quoted a British study which showed no difference in morbidity between vegetarians and other health conscious individuals. It showed that vegan men had a reduced risk of cardiovascular disease compared to vegetarian men but that wasn't true of women and that cancer risks were slightly but not significantly lower for vegans compared to vegetarians. It does not say that veganism is the healthiest diet of all!

The second link is to a review of a TV show. The writer of that article probably did Corrie the next day!

I think that there is evidence that vegetarianism can reduce your risk of cvd, type 2 diabetes and some cancers. I think that there are health conscious meat/dairy eaters who are healthier than some vegans and some vegans who are much healthier than some omnivores. I'm not convinced that there are peer reviewed studies that show veganism is the healthiest diet but obviously I'd love to see some. I'm not being defensive, go vegan if you like but I think blanket statements about it being the healthiest diet are worth challenging.

Sorry x posted before you said you'd had enough debate.

Thanks NickyEd that's fine.

Your frustration with someone like me over simplifying by saying vegans are the healthiest of all, is understandable. But for my part that stance has been within what I originally took to be a fairly light-hearted and general discussion about would it be OK to be a vegan?

In this context I was saying "Did you see that TV programme OP! Vegans live longer than anyone! Isn't that good?! isn't that a surprise! Go ahead!" There was a tone to look at here between the lines.

I think too that, if one is to watch BBC television or read a reasonable newspaper at all, there might be some reason to at least take some of what is presented seriously enough to think about it. The programme makers did not do the research themselves but gathered it from other scientists, even if they did not focus on it critically and comparatively enough for the purposes of real science.

Thanks for your more exact and nuanced research information about it all..
Having read it through with interest, I can't help but notice a blanket judgement sensation creeping over me as a result that a lot of people would be wise to eat a more vegetarian or even vegan diet!

Allofthewine, if you are still reading, this is the recipe for the vegan chocolate cake

Thank you, bestcat I have bookmarked that and shall have a go at baking this weekend!

In a vegan :)

There are lots of ' arguments ' for it, environment, health, welfare.

It's easy to get bogged down in all of that and pick at each detail, but really its perfectly simple.

If you can live your life without causing harm and suffering to other beings, then why wouldn't you?

So when people ask me why are you a vegan, I think, why are you not?!

Nobody lives a life without causing suffering to other beings, not even vegans.

True it's unavoidable to some degree, and hugely avoidable in many others. So why not avoid it where you can?