To become a vegan?

[MissDallas]

OK, I am not your typical hippy type, I have hair extensions and I like fake tans and I have a corporate job. Not sure what that's got to do with it, but wanted to paint a picture.

I have been thinking about becoming a vegan for some time. I hate the way animals are treated in factory farming, it is so cruel. Also in my line of work I have come to know several facts about how meat is produced, mutated chickens, etc and it's awful. I used to think they were urban myths but sadly not. The horse in the ready meals scandal got me thinking as well. We can't even be sure what animal we are eating. Also the hormones, ammonia and other shit used in food... it's all horrible.

On a personal level, I would like to be healthier. I'm always stressed and tired, I'm also overweight.

I keep reading lately about the benefits of a plant-based diet. And people who do 42 day juice fasts and complete my change their health and become happier as a result. It's got me thinking... should I become a vegan?

Is anybody else considering it? Is anybody here a vegan? What do I need to know? Can a vegan diet give you all the nutrients you need? AIBU? Thanks.

I had been an ethical vegan for the past 2.5 years. I felt very strongly about it, but my health over the last year deteriorated so badly that I could barely get out of bed and was hospitalised several times. I was severely B12 and iron deficient. I ate a very clean vegan diet but it didn't help. Two months ago I started eating meat and dairy again (which was really hard for me), but my health now is fantastic, my energy has soured, and all my blood tests have come back normal. I desperately wanted veganism to work for me, I believed in it wholeheartedly, but it made me so ill. I don't know why, I don't know if some people just can't be vegan and I am one of them, I have a friend who had a similar experience so I know I am not alone, but I also have friends who are thriving on a vegan diet. I wouldn't want to discourage anyone from going vegan, but I think that listening to your body if it isn't working for you is important. I kept going with it for way too long.

OP - personally I wouldn't bother too much with vegan cheese. I've not tried the wilmersburger one admittedly but the standard violife and cheezly ones - especially if you're usually a cheese connoisseur who loves vintage cheddar, Stilton and camembert - aren't great and go off really quickly.

I think you're better off from a taste and health point of view just finding something else delicious to eat. We get through a lot of avocados - great for sandwiches / cracker toppings and creamy pasta sauces - nut butter and dips like hummus.

Typical things I'd eat from this week's menu which happen to be vegan, easy to make and all delicious, most take 10-30 mins to make too:

Lentil and roast cauli salad
Quinoa with roast veg, pomegranate seeds and nut butter sauce
Cashew and green veg satay stirfry with rice
Butternut squash and coconut milk soup
Pasta with avocado sauce, kale, pine nuts
Sweetcorn chowder (made with really good almond milk)
Buckwheat spinach pancakes with chickpea and apple
Puy lentil and veg soup
Spiced veggie burger with sweet potato wedges and all the trimmings
Gram flour "pizza" with lots of toppings (this is where the fake cheese can come in handy)
Peanut butter flapjacks - I use coconut oil or T-Rex instead of butter

Why don't you just be veggie? Eggs are a super food with masses of nutrition that you need. If you like the idea of plant-based diet, you can do that without cutting out everything else completely?

once, the OP said she wasn't happy with the cruelty involved in factory farming - very sadly, the egg industry is no different so veggie wouldn't be any good for them. :(

Mrsmiggins ever thought of supplements?!

Ah i see. Get some chickens?

I don't know for sure but aren't there ways to acquire eggs that aren't factory farmed?

They have all the essential amino acids that you absolutely need from diet as they can't be produced by the body. Nuts and beans aren't complete proteins in that way.

I'm veggie but not vegan. I'd be worried about sources of AAs if I were vegan but I bow to other PPs superior knowledge on the subject as I haven't ever looked that deeply into the farming. I just buy free range eggs or am lucky enough to have lots of neighbours with chickens so buy theirs.

I occasionally get eggs from a friend who owns chooks. It's very rare as I usually don't want animal-based products any more, but once in a way eggs are a treat.

The dairy and egg industries are crueller than meat in many cases. It would be more ethical to eat British top quality organic beef than it would be to eat free range eggs or dairy (better to do none of the above!)

MrsMiggins - sorry to hear you think veganism didn't worked for you, if you don't mind me asking, what were you eating and were you taking a b12 supplement? Any healthy diet needs to be well planned, whether omnivorous, vegan or anything in between. I make sure I plan in lots of leafy green veg and legume for the iron, calcium and protein. A vegan or mostly vegan diet is what our bodies are designed for, no-ones body is designed for dairy, but that doesn't mean we don't all need to take care to think about what we eat. Also 'clean eating' isn't necessarily best, we can get a lot from fortified and processed foods such as fortified milks and cereals, tofu, tempeh and seitan. It's harder to get everything we need on a totally 'pure and natural whole foods diet' unless you're eating A LOT of food and really planning it.

A note on b12 as it comes up a lot. B12 is not a vegan problem, it's an everyone problem. It's not actually a vitamin as such, but a bacteria that grows on soil. We get it from eating vegetables straight from the ground or eating animals (and their products) who have eaten from the ground. Thanks to modern farming many soils are now depleted and no longer produce b12. Even some farmers are having to inject their animals with b12 to stay it's in the meat, especially animals who are kept inside and fed on grain rather than eating from outside. Even organic veg suffers as it can be stored for months in controlled environments before making it to shops, which also destroys the b12.

At this stage everyone, whatever their diet, should be taking a b12 supplement, it's really vital for our bodies and brains.

I've been off MN for a while, but coming back to see so many positive responses about veganism has just made my day!

Oncemore it's about combinations - if you eat beans with rice you get the complete amino acids.

Tahini and chickpeas combined in humous also become a complete protein.

Protein really isn't a problem if you're getting enough calories. Women only need about 46g a day which is nothing. Look at some of the biggest animals on earth, elephants, gorillas, cows even, they eat plants and get big and strong just fine. Noones worried about their protein needs.

I've been vege for 18 years and vegan for 10. I also don't look like the 'typical' vegan. I've had no health problems and find it very easy. Go for it!

A vegan or mostly vegan diet is what our bodies are designed for, no-ones body is designed for dairy

No-ones body was "designed " at all! Our bodies evolved naturally, and that includes the natural adaptation to dairy. All humans arrive needing one thing: dairy (in the form of human milk). We'd all be dead if we weren't "designed" to drink milk!

Eat whatever kind of diet you like, its all good. But there is an awful lot of bunkum peddled about things like veganism, we should lay off that.

No, Tigger. The studies are showing that veganism is the ultimately healthful diet. You can choose to ignore that, but it's not bunkum, and the more we can educate people about the harmful effects of meat and dairy, the better.

I believe Tigger is asking whether breastmilk comes under "harmful" dairy?

Veganism argues that cows milk is for calves.

Human milk for human babies

Goats milk for goat babies.

Breastfeeding is pretty much the only option for vegan mums raising vegan babies for the alternative soy formula isn't particularly great

No, Tigger. The studies are showing that veganism is the ultimately healthful diet. You can choose to ignore that, but it's not bunkum, and the more we can educate people about the harmful effects of meat and dairy, the better

Absolute boo hockey, all of that. (what studies? Who by? What kind of vegan diet? Vegans can have terribly unhealthy diets same as anyone else, its not one thing) Your opinions are not facts. But thats not the point I made anyway, was it?

What I said was: you can't argue that our bodies are not designed to consume dairy, since we are MAMMALS, we are by very definition milk drinking as a species. Thats what being a mammal means.
If you then want to argue about lactase persistence and the fact that certain parts of the world have evolved to healthily continue consuming dairy products after weaning while some haven't, thats an interesting point, but not actually relevant to the point at hand.

Tigger, we are designed to consume the dairy from our mothers - our own species. Not another species. We CAN consume it without immediate death, but it does not mean it is good for us in the long run, and indeed, is proven to be more detrimental than beneficial.
Google Nutrition Facts, Dr.Greger - he analyses all the current research, no bias, and his findings consistently show a plant-based diet is optimal.

Ethically of course, there is no argument. Steal milk from a cow, intended for her calf, and her calf dies.

We aren't DESIGNED at all. We evolve. And we have evolved to consume dairy perfectly healthily, in fact there is a distinct evolutionary advantage lactase persistence has been discovered to present stronger selection pressure than any other known human gene
Some very robust studies have shown serious health benefits for lactose consumption in adults. Women with the genes for lactase persistence are healthier than those without.

Ethically...well ethics are individual. If yours are pro-veganism, good for you. Mine might not be, and thats my business.

Lots of good reasons to be vegan ...

It's healthier, better animal welfare, and uses far fewer planetary resources than a meat or dairy-based diet.

But I found it difficult, in family of meat-eaters, to be vegan for more than 3 months.

I'm also not keen on food substitutes - e.g vegetarian sausages or vegan cheese. My view is just don't have the sausages, have a falafel instead. Ask for cheese-free pizza (it's not that bad, honest).

I have compromised - I very rarely eat meat, and if I do only high welfare organic. While I cook meat for others in the family I usually have an organic egg, or lentils.

I cook vegan & veggie meals for the whole family a couple of times a week - no-one notices. My family happily eats tofu without complaining.

I use soya milk instead of cow's milk on an everyday basis, but do have cheese and cream very occasionally, because there are no good substitutes.

It works for me, I feel healthy and it's a good compromise.

I always think there is no reason to fall out over these things. I eat paleo (no dairy) and that is mostly absolutel loads of veg of all kinds (with some meat, fish, eggs, sea food) so always feel how I eat has much more in common with vegans than what most people eat in the UK. I don't agree we are naturally and better off not eating meat or fish or eggs but we could debate that until the cows come home..... I am not a milk fan at all and we don't have milk in the house. It makes my throat hurt and my nose run but that may just be genetic.

I'm an omnivore and try to eat locally sourced high welfare meat where possible.

Yanbu to go vegan. It's up to you, just make sure you try to stay healthy.

However ywbvu if you start to go on about it to all and sundry spouting various "facts" about your diet. I have friends who are vegan, vegetarian, pescetarian etc. None of us care what the others eat... If we go out we accommodate each other, if we go to each others houses we do what we can. I ly 1 of our group has alienated herself frim the rest of us when she went vegan last year and just would not shut up about it.she rarely comes out with us anymore because even the other 2 vegans in our group can't bloody do with her going on.

Enattah, N. S.; Kozlov, A.; Sajantila, A.; Jarvela, I.; Shaat, N.; Groop, L.; et al. (2007). "Evidence of still-ongoing convergence evolution of the lactase persistence T-13910 alleles in humans". The American Journal of Human Genetics 81 (3): 615–625

Gerbault, P.; Liebert, A.; Itan, Y.; Powell, A.; Currat, M.; Burger, J.; et al. (2011). "Evolution of lactase persistence: an example of human niche construction". Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society B: Biological Sciences 366 (1566): 863–877

Smith GD, Lawlor DA, Timpson NJ, Baban J, Kiessling M, Day IN, Ebrahim S (March 2009). "Lactase persistence-related genetic variant: population substructure and health outcomes". Eur. J. Hum. Genet. 17 (3): 357–67

Tishkoff SA, Reed FA, Ranciaro A, Voight BF, Babbitt CC, Silverman JS, Powell K, Mortensen HM, Hirbo JB, Osman M, Ibrahim M, Omar SA, Lema G, Nyambo TB, Ghori J, Bumpstead S, Pritchard JK, Wray GA, Deloukas P (January 2007). "Convergent adaptation of human lactase persistence in Africa and Europe". Nat. Genet. 39 (1): 31–40

Coelho M., Luiselli D., Bertorelle G., Lopes A. I., Seixas S., Destro-Bisol G., Rocha J. (2002). "Microsatellite variation and evolution of human lactase persistence". Human Genetics 117 (4): 329–339.

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I avoided meat and often dairy for many years. My health suffered because of it. Severe anaemia, IBS and haemorrhoids from the iron tablets and onset of PCOS from all the carbs I ate instead. I actually gained weight. This was despite being mindful of my diet and going to gym regularly.

I now eat high fat low carb to keep my PCOS in check and plenty of red meat to balance iron. Non-haem iron doesn't keep my levels up. I've tried and tried over many years.

I try and buy animal products as ethically as possible and hope one day to raise my own animals to eat.

You could try it and see if it works for you. Different bodies react differently to different diets.