To become a vegan?

[MissDallas]

OK, I am not your typical hippy type, I have hair extensions and I like fake tans and I have a corporate job. Not sure what that's got to do with it, but wanted to paint a picture.

I have been thinking about becoming a vegan for some time. I hate the way animals are treated in factory farming, it is so cruel. Also in my line of work I have come to know several facts about how meat is produced, mutated chickens, etc and it's awful. I used to think they were urban myths but sadly not. The horse in the ready meals scandal got me thinking as well. We can't even be sure what animal we are eating. Also the hormones, ammonia and other shit used in food... it's all horrible.

On a personal level, I would like to be healthier. I'm always stressed and tired, I'm also overweight.

I keep reading lately about the benefits of a plant-based diet. And people who do 42 day juice fasts and complete my change their health and become happier as a result. It's got me thinking... should I become a vegan?

Is anybody else considering it? Is anybody here a vegan? What do I need to know? Can a vegan diet give you all the nutrients you need? AIBU? Thanks.

Only one hit for 'vegan' and two for 'vegetarian' in the Cochrane database MedSchoolRat - I'm really surprised at that!

PubMed had this: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26853923

Crit Rev Food Sci Nutr. 2016 Feb 6:0. [Epub ahead of print]
Vegetarian, vegan diets and multiple health outcomes: a systematic review with meta-analysis of observational studies.
Dinu M1,2, Abbate R1, Gensini GF1,3, Casini A1,2, Sofi F1,2,3.

BACKGROUND:
Beneficial effects of vegetarian and vegan diets on health outcomes have been supposed in previous studies.

OBJECTIVES:
Aim of this study was to clarify the association between vegetarian, vegan diets, risk factors for chronic diseases, risk of all-cause mortality, incidence and mortality from cardio-cerebrovascular diseases, total cancer and specific type of cancer (colorectal, breast, prostate and lung), through meta-analysis.

METHODS:
A comprehensive search of Medline, EMBASE, Scopus, The Cochrane Library and Google Scholar was conducted.

RESULTS:
Eighty-six cross-sectional and 10 cohort prospective studies were included. The overall analysis among cross-sectional studies reported significant reduced levels of body mass index, total cholesterol, LDL-cholesterol, and glucose levels in vegetarians and vegans versus omnivores. With regard to prospective cohort studies, the analysis showed a significant reduced risk of incidence and/or mortality from ischemic heart disease (RR 0.75; 95% CI, 0.68 to 0.82) and incidence of total cancer (RR 0.92; 95% CI 0.87 to 0.98) but not of total cardiovascular and cerebrovascular diseases, all-cause mortality and mortality from cancer. No significant association was evidenced when specific types of cancer were analyzed. The analysis conducted among vegans reported significant association with the risk of incidence from total cancer (RR 0.85; 95% CI, 0.75 to 0.95), despite obtained only in a limited number of studies.

CONCLUSIONS:
This comprehensive meta-analysis reports a significant protective effect of a vegetarian diet versus the incidence and/or mortality from ischemic heart disease (-25%) and incidence from total cancer (-8%). Vegan diet conferred a significant reduced risk (-15%) of incidence from total cancer.

Most expert nutritionists do eat meat, fish, eggs and dairy. BUT in very small amounts and very good quality - organic, unprocessed, lean meat for example.

There is a known correlation between consumption of a lot of processed meat (containing nitrites), red meat and some cancers, especially colo-rectal cancer.

A timely thread.

YANBU OP. Good luck with the change over.

I am keen to go for it too - but I think my method might be just to gradually wean myself over. we don't eat much meat here - DH would be on board too.

I am a vegan, haven't eaten meat in 26 years, have been vegan 6 years. I don't take any supplements, ran the London Marathon yesterday aged 40 and have loads of energy.
I feel strongly about the ethical aspect of my lifestyle and also believe firmly that it is the best choice for my health.
I don't judge anyone else's choices about what they eat/drink/smoke/whatever. Vegans sometimes feel that they have to justify their choice, and particularly the health side of it. I don't argue with anyone about it; I am healthy and I don't need to change anyones mind.
A good place to start is with some books, many vegan friends recommend 'The Happy Vegan' by Russell Simmons of DefJam fame. But there are loads more. Become an educated vegan and you will enjoy the riches of plant based food so much more.
Good luck xx

On the road: M and S do a couple of prepacked vegan options for lunches (butternut squash in one, nuts and hummus in the other).

Sainsburys are generally good for vegan options..... sorry in a rush but that's a started for 10!

I buy bags of prepared beansprout pepper stir fry salads to eat on the go often. I eat the whole bag. (I am not vegan however).

One issue I have is studies tend to compare vegans with people who eat meat and junk food. If you eat paleo with some meat and fish and eggs as I do and no junk food I am pretty sure you are also doing as well if hot better than vegans although I don't think there is any point in our trying to prove it no the thread. I think we're all on the same sid e- those of us who eat well whether it includes fish and meat or not and then on the other side those eating junk food.

Show me a systematic literature review or a meta analysis showing that there is no association between vegan diets and any positive health outcomes

No, thats not how it works. You don't assume something is true unless somebody proves that it isn't! Can you show me any meta analysis that tells us there is no association between wearing red shoes and catching a cold? No, of course you can't, but you don't then assume it must be a valid connection.

There's also the precautionary principle - in the absence of any overwhelming evidence against the vegan diet, and there being some compelling evidence suggesting it is healthier, I'm choosing to eat that way

Again, nobody is suggesting there would or should be any evidence AGAINST a vegan diet, but then you jump back to "suggesting it is healthIER" which is the problem.
A vegan diet can be very healthy. However there is no basis in fact for suggesting it is healthIER than any other good quality diet. None.

A vegan diet can be very healthy. However there is no basis in fact for suggesting it is healthIER than any other good quality diet. None

None?
I thought that was what the research seemed to point to in The How Not to Grow Old programme as all the vegan Seventh Day Adventists in a certain town in California seemed to be living longer than people with other diets. When there was an increase in dairy, there was a decrease in longevity and an increase of illness.

Was what they said in that programme misleading for some reason?

Thats s TV programme, not a scientific study. And IIRC there was a lot of mights, maybes, and possiblys about it, with lots of opinions. Not facts.

And do the vegan seventh day adventists live longer than the worlds longest living people, in Okinawa Japan? Where they aren't vegan. They don't. Or Sardinia? Again no (they aren't vegans either).
So, like I said, impossible to say really, isn't it?

If you decided to go vegan and you have kids did you make the whole family go vegan too? I'm not sure I'd be comfortable doing that as my kids are old enough to have an opinion but not really old enough to be expected to cook for themselves every day. Then I wonder if there's much point me going vegan if I still end up buying animal products for the kids...

Good find Contessa.
It is polite to explain jargon or research methods. & to let people know how they can do their own research.

Sorry Medschoolrat, I posted without thinking (I'm a medical writer, I use Pubmed a lot)!

For everybody else: Pubmed is a very reputable site where you can search for scientific articles based on your keyword of interest (as you would for Google). The link above indicates that vegans were 15% less likely than the general population to have cancer of any type, although it cautions that not many studies included vegans as a distinct group.

If you want scientific/sceptical sorts to take you seriously then Pubmed is a good place to look for articles. Ideally studies should have a large number of patients and go on for a reasonable period of time (at least 6 months would be good).

The link above indicates that vegans were 15% less likely than the general population to have cancer of any type, although it cautions that not many studies included vegans as a distinct group

Doesn't it also caution that there are many other factors that may be influencing that as well as the diet? Another study suggests that those who follow a vegan diet are also more likely to do more exercise, and another finds they drink less alcohol, both of which could be influencing factors in morbidity.

Allofthewine, my daughter has gone to bed now (good girl) but I'll ask her tomorrow and post it then

Op if you do it i praise you, its very hard. My cousin is vegan but she was raised as only eating fish so suppose was easyish for her.
I have cut out red meat, only eat chicken or turkey twice a week, mostly fish.

It really will help with your weight lose as well, my cousin was a size 18-20 she is a 10 now within a couple years.

I have anemia and i don't eat red meat, i drink soya milk, i'm a size 8-10 and im never ill
onsera, very odd it affected you that way.

I'm vegan - a slightly chubby one though. I'm not sure if it guarantees weight loss as there is a very big membership on the vegan slimming world page on fb.....

I'm not sure if a vegan diet is better for me. I'm never ill, I haven't had a cold in years and years and people say I look younger than my mid forties. However, I could be exactly the same if I spend my days eating bacon sandwiches.

I've been veggie for 35 years (and vegan for the last 6 years).

I'm vegan as I tend to 'overthink' things. I've travelled a lot and know lots of farmers so have seen animals killed and chopped up. Unfortunately - a piece of meat doesn't hold any appeal for me as I know the squeals and copious amount of blood involved in producing it.

Also - I work as a midwife so handle a lot of placentas . All meat looks like placenta . That really puts me off.

The dairy industry isn't the most kindest and caring to animals.

I haven't eaten an egg since childhood when I cracked one into a cake (came from friends chickens) and a slimy dead chick came out.

I never have any problems eating out and about.

I don't tend to tell people I'm vegan as I can't be bothered with having to defend myself. Although most people who find out seem mostly interested these days. I think veganism is becoming more mainstream and maybe a little bit fashionable.

So YADNBU to become vegan.

My haemoglobin is 145 - at the top of the normal range

tigger you are right. However, my statement as it stands is correct too. I didn't feel the need to fully assess and summarise the abstract for everyone since a) I'm not at work and b) everyone here can read!

To those intent on tearing down the assertion that a vegan diet is not healthier: what's your aim here?

To criticise a vegan diet?

To get the warm glow that comes with being right?

To put a stop to people making statements based on less than thorough studies, one Mumsnet thread at a time?

Just curious.

Facts, thats all. Is a vegan diet healthy? Yes, usually. Is it healthIER than any other healthy diet? Possibly but probably not.

Several vegans on this thread asserted confidently that a vegan diet is definitely healthier than any other diet, and advised people that it can affect their health and medical issues. It's only responsible to point out that this advice, while well-meaning, is not at all fact of any kind but instead opinion, and should not be taken as fact by anyone considering a radical change of diet.

Now, why would you have a problem with someone pointing that out?

It would be interesting to see a study comparing the effects of a vegan diet with a diet that includes meat but not processed meat and with meat eaters who don't eat a lot of meat.

homo sapiens is an omnivorous animal and can survive on a lot of things. We do need B12 which in nature only comes from bacteria. Hence a vegan diet needs supplements/fortification, or doing what the cavemen do and eating a bit of animal faeces. Your call.

otherwise a good varied diet with all the nutrients we need will do. There's a huge choice of sources for those ingredients so there is no 'best' diet.