"The Mummies on the Bus go chatter, chatter chatter" Really?

[BespokeStereophonicVinyl]

So, I attend a regular nursery rhyme session at my local library and 'The Wheels on the Bus' now seems to comprise the above delight, together with the equally offensive "The Daddies on the bus go shush, shush, shush"

I'm really bristling at this example of everyday sexism. Yes, I am a mother, but I am also educated to Post Grad level and have a bunch of fairly heavyweight professional qualifications too. Prior to having DD, I held a senior position in a very male dominated field and really resent the implication that when a woman (who may or may not have children) speaks, it should be assumed that it is mere 'chatter'. I'm also really unhappy with the idea that a big manly man has to step in to shut up all these hysterically chattering women, otherwise where would the world be, eh?

AIBU to take this up with the library/council? I just don't want DD to face the same constant battle that I did, to be taken seriously in life just because she's a woman. I think we owe it to the next generation to challenge this trivialisation of women's opinions.

Good one Buffy

And yes Zing, more the conductor or inspector who'd say "tickets please" - shame as I like the actions that go with that one (hand claps between children or teacher and child) and conductor doesn't scan so well, plus children today wouldn't know hat one was!

Space Dinosaur - sounds like you run a great baby group and have made some excellent tweaks to things. But then I'm slightly disappointed that you say "I can't remember what else. I genuinely don't think about it" And say we're all utterly dolally too!
Sounds like you do think about it quite a bit, which you must do if you tweak things and have lesson plans.
Now't wrong with a bit of thinking my dear
(am assuming you might be younger than me ... I'm ancient!)

Completely agree with you. And for women to agree that their conversation is 'chatter' with all that implies (meaningless, facile, irritating) seems to me to be an example of internalised misogyny.

Completely agree with you. And for women to agree that their conversation is 'chatter' with all that implies (meaningless, facile, irritating) seems to me to be an example of internalised misogyny.

Or they realise that like everyone, not everything they talk about is prize winning, thought provoking and intelligent discussion.

Yesterday i had a long discussion about the best place to hide if zombies were to break down my door.... That's chatter at it's finest.

"Sammy davis Jr... He's like a black Bruce forsyth mixed with the creepy chuckle brother..."

This is the type of thing i monologue about about.

I'm not interested in a discussion with you bertrand. Maybe just be mindful of how you words things so as not to make people feel like less of a feminist just because they don't have the same view as you.

It is a self esteem issue - confident women wouldn't take much notice of the words ( & if they're anything like me they'd be looking at their watch thinking 'thank god this playgroup session is almost over ) I'd have sang anything to get out the door quicker.

It is a self esteem issue - confident women wouldn't take much notice of the words
Seriously? What's the logic for that then?

All nursery rhymes are old fashioned and out of date but it's part of our history and if it bothers you that much I would try and explain that that's what used to happen years ago but that times have changed and things are different now. I dont have a problem with any of them!!

"I'm not interested in a discussion with you bertrand. Maybe just be mindful of how you words things so as not to make people feel like less of a feminist just because they don't have the same view as you."

So you're just happy to telll people that I called you a porn star and leave it at thqt? Right. Please could you PM me the username you had when I said that so I can find the thread? Happy to apologise profusely if in a moment of complete madness I did.

No thanks.

Great. I can safely assume you made it up then. Which I knew anyway, because I have never called anyone a porn star in my entire life.

Yes I made it up. Because that would make total sense...

I get what you mean, OP, although I probably wouldn't complain. The one that bugs me is 5 (or 3) Little Ducks: the ducks ignore the poor bloody mother for the whole damn song, then daddy duck says "QUAAAAACK" and they all skedaddle back sharpish. I do think it gives the wrong impression somewhat.

Umbongo-you are either mistaken or making it up because I have never, ever called anyone a porn star. There is an easy way to find out but you don't want to. That's absolutely fine- but please stop perpetuating the accusation.

Anyway- back on this side of the wormhole..

The problem with taking issue with this nursery rhyme is that the lyrics are made up at the time, Mummy's Chatter isn't in the original version...

Now "Clap hands, Clap hands 'till daddy comes home" That is an example of ingrained sexism we sing to children.

If it bothers you that much change the words when you sing it to your dc, put a complaint in to your local council, ask the playgroup leader to kindly change the words, I mean it's not difficult is it? - 'Wheels on the bus' is not the national anthem.

Well it doesn't look like the OP is coming back so might as well just round this ridiculous thread up anyway.

It's only a nursery rhyme and shouldn't be taken literally.

Why don't we analyse Humpty Dumpty we're at it?

all comes down to how you define chatter.

I chat to my friends, I have a quick catch up and a chat in work, I ask DC often if they want to have a chat about 'it' (whatever it is that day).

Chatting, chatter, chats - it's part of the foundations of being human. Strengthens our social bonds.

How people can be so offended is outside of my scope of understanding. And many of the self defined feminists on this have a very skewed view of what that is, IMO. Each to their own.

Ultimately, the mum's on the bus usually do chatter chatter chatter - and good on them. And no, I am not suffering from some undiagnosed case of 'internalised misogyny' (my first laugh of the day on MN)

"How people can be so offended is outside of my scope of understanding."

Could that be because people aren't offended?

juggling
Yup, my classes are amazing! I love what I do!

The reason I say that I don't really think about gender, names, activities is because it's purely instinctive now. I've been running classes and activities for years and yes, when I first started i did need to engage my brain to undo my early learning to ensure there weren't stupid stereotypes.
It all started in my first week when I sang about miss Polly's doctor and my brain went "why's the bloody dr a man?" And from then on I changed it!

My differing ducks were a few weeks later, the bus followed shortly.
I have so many songs in my arsenal I can't remember what I've changed from the 80's version now. It's only when I hear other groups do I remember/realise!

It's not offensive- that's not really the point.

What I find interesting is this is not an old fashioned rhyme which looks a bit iffy now. It's less than 100 years old. The original version had people going up and down, the wheels , wipers, driver etc doing what they do, babies going wah ( which they tend to do) answer mothers going shush/ hush to the children (which they tend to do) All fine.

When it was written it would have been far more likely to be mothers and babies. Now dads will be on the bus. But instead of "mums and dads" or "grown ups" going hush it's now dads. Telling whom ? The noisy babies? The chattering mothers. It's retrograde.

As Bertrand can confirm (I think she knows me well enough)don't need to be a self declared feminist to see what is wrong with this.

It's not offensive, it doesn't make me angry but it's a bit stupid really.