"The Mummies on the Bus go chatter, chatter chatter" Really?

[BespokeStereophonicVinyl]

So, I attend a regular nursery rhyme session at my local library and 'The Wheels on the Bus' now seems to comprise the above delight, together with the equally offensive "The Daddies on the bus go shush, shush, shush"

I'm really bristling at this example of everyday sexism. Yes, I am a mother, but I am also educated to Post Grad level and have a bunch of fairly heavyweight professional qualifications too. Prior to having DD, I held a senior position in a very male dominated field and really resent the implication that when a woman (who may or may not have children) speaks, it should be assumed that it is mere 'chatter'. I'm also really unhappy with the idea that a big manly man has to step in to shut up all these hysterically chattering women, otherwise where would the world be, eh?

AIBU to take this up with the library/council? I just don't want DD to face the same constant battle that I did, to be taken seriously in life just because she's a woman. I think we owe it to the next generation to challenge this trivialisation of women's opinions.

In our version the babies go "WAAH WAAH WAAH", the mummies go "Shush shush shush" and the daddies go nod,nod, nod (asleep) - my OH frequently misses his stop because he's fallen asleep.

Feminist crap. YABVU and you know it.

Both sodding genders chat FGS! Only if the word 'chatter' is prefixed by the word 'Mummies' it automatically becomes a negative, obviously!!!!

Everyone on Buffy Playbus goes Chatter, Chatter, Chatter all day long and we love it. Come and join in the fun www.buffybus.co.uk

that's very sleepist of you curl. How dare you? I'm off to my safe space.. Next time, a trigger warning please. My kids could have be looking over my shoulder.

This is something I've often felt uncomfortable with at playgroups... Lisa Williams wrote a little post for Tantrum magazine about exactly this (wondering while the mums are 'chattering', what the dads are doing). Have a read - tantrum.xyz/posts/what_do_the_daddies_on_the_bus_do_51

Oh dear - is there nothing more important to think about at the moment, BespokeStereophonicVinyl? I too deeply resent sexist talk, attitudes and prejudice but this is an fairly old rhyme and if we start changing the wording of everything that sounds even remotely sexist well...therein lies madness. Peppa Pig is an example of slightly sexist attitudes - have you noticed that Daddy Pig is always the fall guy? (literally).

I would let this one go, just for your own sanity. You could go crazy if you start looking into all these nursery rhymes and stories from yonks ago! I get what you're saying but don't let it bother you so much, its a traditional song from a very different time and with you as her mother, your daughter is unlikely to grow up thinking women are merely living in a man's world, so don't worry about it.

What do you mean Zing? Why is is crap to not want kids to grow up with unhelpful ideas about men and women?

My mum worked in playgroups throughout the 90s and into the 00s. They made sure that they did not perpetuate gender stereotypes to young children such as this. But I hear it coming home from my son's nursery and I am now also going to say something today because I realise it is worth making a fuss about.

It is worth making a fuss about because the stereotype that it is perpetuating is so very old and ingrained, namely that women talk a lot but it is trivial in some way, and that men have the right to shut them up.

Of COURSE its just a nursery rhyme, but the sentiment within it relates to the real world, where women have, for a very long time, not been taken seriously in the way that men have. Not all nursery rhymes do relate so clearly to an issue which is still causing injustice in the world, but nursery rhymes are repeated and ideas from them will sink in. Why not try and edit out some of the most unhelpful bits?

"Sorry bertrand but it was actually you that I had the argument with about removing body hair. Practically called me a porn star." What does "practically" mean? I wouldn't have said your couldn't be. Feminist If ou removed your pubic hair. I "would" have said that you had made a non feminist decision that was influenced, whether you realized it or not by our society's pornographic sensibility. I would have said that a choice does not become feminist just because a woman makes it. I am absolutely certain I didn't call you a porn star!

I always thought "the driver on the bus says ticket please" was odd.
IME experience it's the customer who asks for the ticket and the driver says how much it will cost.
"The driver on the bus says money please" would be more factually appropriate.

I'm organising a march with banners and stuff to protest against this misinformation of young impressionable minds

It's a very old nursery rhyme but, I agree. I don't really like it. The concept is outdated now.

I am with you on this one.

I have also been uncomfortable with the words (even with the baby going "wah wah wah" - I don't know why but it seems patronising? I am aware this sounds ridiculous..)

I agree with the posters that say this is trivial, but I work in a male industry (engineering) and have gone from a very "practical" "we're all equal" position when I was younger to a much more jaded one now. I believe the accumulation of all these little "trivial" classifications is limiting.

It would be more fun anyway if we could mix it up a bit - the Mum could go "shush shush shush" and the Dad could go "wah wah wah" sometimes? Perhaps that's the way to tackle it?

I knew, just knew that someone one day would get offended and post about this

Thanks OP! I love beging right

Yup, gender stereotyping starts from a very young age and creeps into everything. When my son was 3 it had already started - he took the duplo girl out of her plane and looked at me incredulously saying - girls can't fly a plane! Even I find myself sometimes saying 'he' by mistake, when I could perfectly well say something non-specific, like 'they'. It's ingrained. Even though I work as an event construction manager, surrounded by enough cranes and hard hats to give Bob the Builder a run for his money, he still says 'only daddy understands how to fix things', despite most of the fixing and making in our household being carried out in front of my son by me!
So, yes, I thought exactly the same about mummies going "chatter chatter chatter".

At the fab children's centre I used to take DS2 to, we had a poll every week about what the mummies on the bus would get up to. Winning suggestions included, from memory: 'eat lots of choc', 'put the world to rights', 'do EVERYTHING' etc etc (The daddies on the bus usually 'read, read, read' or went 'zzzz, zzzz, zzz' which I thought was allowing them a certain amount of indulgence!)

OP, I do get you, but this sort of thing is easily remedied - you set your own child a good example of a well-rounded adult who will not fit into one particular box. I have a PhD and I could cope with the mummies having a chatter, because it really is just a bloody song that you may have to sing for a very few months of your child's life before they get fed up with it. And do remember that children often prefer things boringly unchanging, every bloody week. My younger son has autism and doesn't appreciate clever or subversive substitutions to the 'normal' verses of songs he enjoys listening to.

I think the use of "offended" and of course "professionally offended" is a bit crap too. "Looking for asomehting to be offended by" etc.

I'm really not offended! - I find it annoying, I identify it as damaging, and I think it's something we should challenge/update/be aware of. Or discuss with our children – you can point this kind of stuff out to them, "I think the daddies chat too, what do you think?" "Your daddy isn't that bossy is he? What shall we change it to, what would daddy say on the bus?"

Sometimes everyday sexism makes me angry or frustrated too. Not offended, which is used in a sneery way to make people who have a reasonable objection to something look like whining, self-pitying narcissists. Something may be offensive, that doesn't mean I'm "offended" in a "so hurt and put out" kind of way.

If you have the energy and are annoyed enough to take it further go for it.. Ok it's not a big deal on its own but all the small things add up.. Not sure what to replace it with though.. 'The mummies on the bus have-a-long-intellectual-discussion-about-insidious-sexism-in-the-context-of-preschool-education'

I get this - I don't mind the chatter, chatter, chatter but I always cringe at Dads doing the shushing! I

Actually, the modern rhyme goes -

The passengers on my bus are pig ignorant because they give me a £20 note for a £2 fare because they think it's the bus driver's job to be a mobile change-dispensing service rather than go to the bank and get some coins.
Nearly everyone on my bus is using their iPhones continually.
The drunks on my bus go F-- F F--. And vomit, vomit, vomit.
The immigrants on my bus can't speak English well enough to state their destination and have to have it written down to show me. Yet somehow they qualify for a free pass to get them to the local hospital where they will get treatment on the NHS which is free to them but paid for by people like me who have been working here for 50yrs.
The schoolkids on my bus won't sit down, swear, throw stuff around, fight, climb over seats and generally act like retarded chimps. But there's no point reporting their bad behaviour because they know that nobody can stop them which is what you get when you abolish corporal punishment. If my generation had behaved like that on a school bus, the conductor would give you a thump, report you to the school who would cane you and then tell your dad who would take his belt to you.
Yes it hurt, but by God we respected our elders and didn't behave like savages
Being more concerned about the political correctness of mummies saying one thing and daddies saying something else is one of the reasons we have so much trouble from kids these days - what people should do is get back to basics and DISCIPLINE their children instead of debating what is PC and what isn't.

"What not just individual preference like shaving armpits and legs, or is that frowned upon too? "

Itsmine- it may well be a genuine question, but it is also one that has been gone over ad infinitum- and I am sure you've been on threads where that has happened. People who don't like feminists seem to be obsessed by pubic hair, and absolutely insistent that all of a sudden, women independently and without any external influences went from celebrating a victory when hospitals reluctantly stopped automatically shaving women on admittance to the labour ward to posting anxiously on Mumsnet about whether their midwife would judge them for having hair in places that it is perfectly normal for adult women to have hair! And that it is entirely coincidental that this happened at the same time as the increasing availability of pornogaphy- where women have no pubic hair either to make them look prepubescent or so as not to obscure the view.

Another utterly boring PC female, who bristles at anything.
I too have myriad qualifications, and have raised my girls to be strong females , confident enough to sing those lyrics with out feeling undermined.
Get a life !!