"The Mummies on the Bus go chatter, chatter chatter" Really?

[BespokeStereophonicVinyl]

So, I attend a regular nursery rhyme session at my local library and 'The Wheels on the Bus' now seems to comprise the above delight, together with the equally offensive "The Daddies on the bus go shush, shush, shush"

I'm really bristling at this example of everyday sexism. Yes, I am a mother, but I am also educated to Post Grad level and have a bunch of fairly heavyweight professional qualifications too. Prior to having DD, I held a senior position in a very male dominated field and really resent the implication that when a woman (who may or may not have children) speaks, it should be assumed that it is mere 'chatter'. I'm also really unhappy with the idea that a big manly man has to step in to shut up all these hysterically chattering women, otherwise where would the world be, eh?

AIBU to take this up with the library/council? I just don't want DD to face the same constant battle that I did, to be taken seriously in life just because she's a woman. I think we owe it to the next generation to challenge this trivialisation of women's opinions.

Don't reject feminism just reject madness.

"Yet reading Mumsnet you would think that the most important issues for feminism were berating nursery teaches for nursery rhymes or admin assistants (who are both normally women) for calling them Mrs instead of Ms."

Well, if you only read those two threads you might. But that would mean you had missed all the other threads about the position of women around the world, sex work, violence, employment, women and girls' education...........

It's good that there is a Feminism topic because people can choose whether or not to read. It's usually bonkers threads like this that end up in AIBU and Chat.

I actually totally take the points some of you made there. And I suppose the idea of getting involved to shape feminism is a really good one . If I'm honest I find it really waring and draining so I sort of avoid it which is the easy way out but not helping to change it and I take that on board. It may be where I am in my life is busy, lots to think about that in my life feels more important. It's probably a few bad apples spoiling the barrel for me. But as someone said down thread maybe just balancing how men and women are seen in nursery rhymes is the way forward? It just seems the op original point is so ridiculous to me that it comes across as bristling and looking to be offended. And in my experience women are more sensitive on the whole than men but that doesn't amount to them fainting and getting 'the vapours' it's just a general truism. And again what's wrong with that? I don't understand why some difference can't stand. That's not sexist it's true . In the main.

"It's good that there is a Feminism topic because people can choose whether or not to read. It's usually bonkers threads like this that end up in AIBU and Chat."

So does that mean you don't want to discuss what everyone seem to be saying are the serious issues feminism should be addressing?

cbigs It might just be true because as children we're brought up with those expectations, and children naturally want to fulfil what you project at them. This does boys a disservice too- there are plenty f studies showing how boys are set a lower bar when it comes to literacy and aren't as stretched as their female counterparts. Hard data shows girls outperforming boys year after year.... And then earning less?

Well said BillSykes. I've said the very same thing though and been flayed alive for it, so be prepared.

What our fore mothers went through was a picnic compared to what women in Iran, Saudi Arabia, rural India, Afghanistan, etc etc are going through right now. Meanwhile, feminism here in the UK is busy with 27 pages of argument over “wheel on the bus”.

cbigs sorry, distracted by dd- meant to add that I absolutely agree the tone of the op does very much mask what is a worthwhile point...

Not on Mumsnet I don't BR.

Sorry bertrand but it was actually you that I had the argument with about removing body hair. Practically called me a porn star.

Can I ask what people define feminism as?

I always thought it was respecting women who make their own choices and to get them on an equal level as men.

Umbongo pics please so we can determine who is right

What? Hope you're being sarcastic and not implying that I'm sad enough to keep screen shots of all the arguments I've had on here.

Oh no! I was (jokingly) asking for pics of your hairless regions

What is bonkers about not wanting to teach and pass on gender stereotyping to children

Unless you think children never are influenced by what they am hear, read, watch and observe around then

pog oh I'm so sorry! (I've just woken up and am a complete bitch in the mornings with no sense of humour)!

What is bonkers about not wanting to teach and pass on gender stereotyping to children

Irony being that 'mums' haven't stopped talking about this nonsense for 3 days.
I think it's fair to say women do 'chat' more than men - & so what?

Well it's a difference of opinion if you think it's nonsense or not

I would call this a discussion, different opinions being posted

In my experience men talk as much as women I have known a chat about a football game to go on all day

No one has to be on this thread if they don't want to discuss "nonsense"!

I think threads like this are helpful. Many a thread like this has helped me mull over what I think and be informed by others' views. I agree with a PP that it's a worry that so many people can't see a problem– that's how I see it – on the other hand it's interesting to me that they don't, and I see that as part of the issue. I can't know for sure whether it's me that's insane, or if there really is a problem that some people are still blind to. The discussion gives me lots of different views and makes me think.

You're all mad.
Utterly dolally!

FWIW I run a baby group and the people on the bus change what they're doing each week to reflect that week's topic.
Children eat their snacks
Mums drink nice hot tea
Dads eat chocolate cake
Babies drink their milk
Nannies read a book
Grandads are very tired
Aunties wave hello
Uncles, cousins, friends.....

My driver says "Oyster card please"
The wipers have no educational benefit for my lesson plan so usually fuck off!!!

And the ducks? Uncle duck, auntie duck, nanna duck, etc etc... Different relative each verse. Changes weekly. You'd be surprised how easy it is for parents and carers to follow

Miss Polly's doctor is a woman or a man, changes weekly.

I don't make a big deal out of it. It's just how I work. I have had comments, almost all really positive. One dad remarked "feminism gone mad" to which I laughed and showed him how many more signs he was learning given the wonderful variety in our songs.

Can't remember what else I've tweaked. I genuinely don't think about it!

I have changed a lot of generic he's to she's and they's though.

If you don't like something, change it.
Not that class, let them be, just find a better class.

I occasionally also run rhyme time sessions as a volunteer. Mine are clearly different to yours OP!

Fuck's sake. Women chatter and men have to be the adults to make them shush.

I'd be RAGING with the nursery.

Is the problem here the word "chat". Men on a bus would probably be said to "talk" to eachother and not "chat". Talk is a more serious word than chat and so it diminishes women's social interaction to being a bit silly and not important. I actually happen to like the word "chat" as i run a women's group and encourage the chatting as it is fun and interesting. So how can we raise the way chat is perceived? Maybe refer to men as chatting too?

Grannies on the bus don't say "wheres my glasses" either only for the children to reply "in your pocket"
This implies all Grannies are forgetful

And while we're on the subject those 5 little monkeys how do they get to see a doctor so quick and why hasn't social services been informed?
Oh...it's a nursery rhyme lol