"The Mummies on the Bus go chatter, chatter chatter" Really?

[BespokeStereophonicVinyl]

So, I attend a regular nursery rhyme session at my local library and 'The Wheels on the Bus' now seems to comprise the above delight, together with the equally offensive "The Daddies on the bus go shush, shush, shush"

I'm really bristling at this example of everyday sexism. Yes, I am a mother, but I am also educated to Post Grad level and have a bunch of fairly heavyweight professional qualifications too. Prior to having DD, I held a senior position in a very male dominated field and really resent the implication that when a woman (who may or may not have children) speaks, it should be assumed that it is mere 'chatter'. I'm also really unhappy with the idea that a big manly man has to step in to shut up all these hysterically chattering women, otherwise where would the world be, eh?

AIBU to take this up with the library/council? I just don't want DD to face the same constant battle that I did, to be taken seriously in life just because she's a woman. I think we owe it to the next generation to challenge this trivialisation of women's opinions.

"Chattering classes" is entirely different. And, incidentally, derogatory!

"DH, who is a SAHP, got turned away from a baby massage group because it was for Mum's.

^This is awful."

It is awful- unless it was a woman only group so that women could breastfeed and talk freely about their post baby bodies. I would have been very uncomfortable if there had been men at the baby yoga group that as my lifeline when did was tiny. Mums only- awful. Women only, not so much.

OP I'm with you, YADNBU, it's this sort of insidious sexism that is absolutely everywhere. It might be a minor example in the big scheme of things, but exposing DCs (both DDs in terms of how they view themselves, and DSs in how they view women) to this sort of thing constantly does add up. I'm not sure I'd actually complain in this instance, but it would definitely rankle me.

One group I used to go to sang "the mummies on the bus go chatter chatter chatter" and "the daddies on the bus go read read read"

If it's a baby massage group then surely it should be open to all parents. I tire of all these baby orientated places that wont accept male parents. Men get isolated too.

Yes grays!

The message that seems to be coming up is women are BETTER than men.

As regards black cleaners, I have noticed that 100% of the cleaners I have observed at my university are black, and I don't think any of them are the business owners either. So in this case, it's extremely relevant that the person cleaning the ladies at 11pm is black. Although when I looked it up turned out they have some kind of initiative which tries to offer employment and training opportunities to people from the local area.

As regards 'chattering' -- this is a highly gendered (gender meaning sex in this context) term. Monkeys chatter, our cat chatters (or chitters) when observing a bird out of the window, and women/mummies on the bus, but men discuss. Because even if you acknowledge that women may have a different social conversational pattern to men, calling it 'chattering', a term which is also used for animals (engaging in meaningless noise making), tells you straight away what the serious men think of what women do.

And you end up with Cameron telling MP Angela Eagle to 'Calm down, dear'. Gendered and sexist language being used to put a woman down in a place where she is effectively being told she doesn't belong, or is only allowed to speak when the serious men have finished.............

"Chattering classes" is entirely different. And, incidentally, derogatory!*

Chattering is the action of chatter.

Why do you feel you have to point out its derogatory in this phrase?

I mean I put it in the very definition I posted - it's right there in my post - so why assume I'm incapable of grasping that?

As I said earlier in this thread it cleverly confuses the two definition of chatter making unclear by context which it is referring to - - to talk idly or to make a high pitched notice like a flock of starlings both definitions of chatter.

It's being using in a derogatory way here but chatter itself a derogatory word.

If you care that deeply there are more important gender inequality issues you could be battling, and most of them aren't in this country. Carrying on in this nature will drive many people away from you as they'll see you as someone that complains about everything. I agree the song is dumb but I don't agree that it is worth the time or energy to complain about.

And just because you believe in equal rights it doesn't mean you need to go on about your qualifications and education, that sort of stuff grates on people believe me. I used to work in customer service and this one lady persistently wrote in to complain about the term "housewife" pillow and the e-mail was full of all of her achievements, job status, finances as though they made her superior in some manner.

Why was she telling an absolute stanger how much she made in a year? Sorry I don't validate people on their wealth or education I validate them as to whether they are good, kind people or not.

It's being using in a derogatory way here but chatter itself isn't a derogatory word.

Not sure where my first ins't went

"If it's a baby massage group then surely it should be open to all parents. I tire of all these baby orientated places that wont accept male parents. Men get isolated too."

Tell me about "all these baby oriented places that won't accept mail parents"?

"The message that seems to be coming up is women are BETTER than men."

How on earth did you get to that???????????

YADNBU. It makes me inwardly cross everytime. As much as the blank space on DDs pre-school form for my job and working hours: SAHM. Clearly I do nothing, except, perhaps chatter on the bus all day long . However, I was cheered when DD1 started singing "the parents on the bus go shh shh shh". Imo, this should be the correct version across the land. Non discriminatory in any sense. There is hope!

The message that seems to be coming up is women are BETTER than men.

I think that's a bit of a leap, i won't deny there are a few anti men sexist posters on Mumsnet but this thread has actually (Mostly) stayed away from that...

BertrandRussell He/she probably came to that conclusion in the same way women get annoyed about male only clubs, and believing that implies men are better in some way.

Regardless of what some people say men and women are different and we like to be in an environment without the opposite gender sometimes, that's fine!

However I agree it's unfair to exclude men from baby groups etc. as it can be hard enough as it is managing school runs and clubs dominated by women.

"The Pp's dp turned away from a baby massage group obviously is totally unacceptable, our local one had whichever parent was free that day.What happened when he complained did they let him back?"

It is unacceptable- unless there was a good reason for it to be a woman only group. There's a dads and toddlers group near me- I don't think that's totally unacceptable....

And you must have been living under a stone if you haven't noticed lots of rewriting of fairy stories and lots of new ones being written so that the girls aren't so wet...........

Without wanting to change the subject too much, I have an issue with 'The Farmer's in His Den'. The farmer is male and wants a wife. The wife then wants a child.

I'm not ok with it but AIBU? I think it's for similar reasons as the gender stereotyping of The Wheels on the Bus

Tell me about "all these baby oriented places that won't accept mail parents"

Glad you've never experienced it. Unlike people who have, y'know, dads who were excluded because for some women parent=mum and they saw it as a place to discuss all the 'women things' and thus didn't feel comfortable with men there.

This post is tragic.

People like you piss me off. I too have a degree op, woop de fucking woop. I thought I'd slip that one in there where it's totally unnecessary to the conversation just like you did. But oh yes, of course, you felt the need to reference your education and your intelligence because you think it supports your oh so 'controversial' views, as you'd probably like to think. I think you think really highly of yourself otherwise you'd definitely not be posting such shite.

YES YABU. It's a silly rhyme for babies and small children, that's what nursery rhymes are, they're silly. A song that has reference to mothers chatting on a bus isn't sexist. Nor is the reference to daddies going 'shush shush shush'.

So you don't think women should be allowed to have groups where they discuss -um- women's things?

What about the dads and toddlers group I mentioned- that OK?

unless there was a good reason for it to be a woman only group. There's a dads and toddlers group near me- I don't think that's totally unacceptable.

But a massage group is supposed to be for all. Dads and toddlers thats fine, if there's a female version if females wanted it.

Keep it coming, pixie- the more evidence the better!

So you don't think women should be allowed to have groups where they discuss -um- women's things?

Could you please direct me to where I said that?

Or did I say baby massage should be for men too, since erm.. men are also parents.

I always used to sing this to DS and give an extra positive oomph to the "chatter chatter chatter" in order to convey that mummies were performing the important evolutionary task of tribal bonding through swapping information which ultimately underpins societal cohesion and promotes world peace.... I'm not quite sure he got that though