"The Mummies on the Bus go chatter, chatter chatter" Really?

[BespokeStereophonicVinyl]

So, I attend a regular nursery rhyme session at my local library and 'The Wheels on the Bus' now seems to comprise the above delight, together with the equally offensive "The Daddies on the bus go shush, shush, shush"

I'm really bristling at this example of everyday sexism. Yes, I am a mother, but I am also educated to Post Grad level and have a bunch of fairly heavyweight professional qualifications too. Prior to having DD, I held a senior position in a very male dominated field and really resent the implication that when a woman (who may or may not have children) speaks, it should be assumed that it is mere 'chatter'. I'm also really unhappy with the idea that a big manly man has to step in to shut up all these hysterically chattering women, otherwise where would the world be, eh?

AIBU to take this up with the library/council? I just don't want DD to face the same constant battle that I did, to be taken seriously in life just because she's a woman. I think we owe it to the next generation to challenge this trivialisation of women's opinions.

Well, some cleaners are business owners. Many are cleaning disgusting loos in offices at 4 in the morning for minimum wage panicking because they've left their kids home alone. But that's another thread.

Used to say the brummies on the bus go chatter, chatter, chatter
As ime it's true U

People on the bus chatter
Babies on the bus waah
Mummies on the bus ssh
Children on the bus bounce up and down
Daddies on the bus say don't do that

Though I guess that's still sexist with mummies doing caring and daddies doing discipline.

YANBU I hate that song it grates on me after years of hearing it over and over again

grays you don't have to do anything.

I feel like there is quite a lot of difference between saying "Hey DD, do you want to go and play football with those boys?"
and "Hey DD, why do you want to go and play football with those children?"

There isn't so much difference when saying "mind out for that woman carrying a tray" as opposed to "mind out for that person carrying a tray" and given the likely emergency of the situation I won't often manage to auto-correct on the fly.

My DD was three when she told me girls can't be engineers, so I must have got the name of the character in her book wrong. She has Mum working full time as a physicist and SAHD. She got her sexist outlook from the fact that there is a huge bias in gender roles in children's books, TV and yes nursery rhymes.

DH gets judged for 'not wanting to provide for his family'. I get judged because it is DH that DD goes to for consolation if she grazes her knee.

So I don't consider it wasted effort to on-the-fly switch all the genders in her books. So all the boys are worried about getting their clothes dirty and messing their hair up and the girls are the robust go getting problem solvers.

cbig You have a biological sex. > Gender is something that society says you have - that you should behave in a certain way because of your biological sex.

I would say that gender roles are harmful to women. Look at MN. We talk about the challenging issues of raising children, and of mental health, and of supporting women in abusive relationship etc etc, and yet there's more than one post on here saying that we "natter" - that we talk idly.

Besides women don't "natter" more than men.

Oh for goodness sake catch a grip! It's an action song and it's funny and easy to sing and it's not going to make 3 year olds think about stereotyping men and women!!!!! Your comment shows exactly what is wrong with our society today - everyone else is wrong and I'm right!!!!!!
Let children be children. I grew up on baa baa black sheep and it didn't turn me into a racist. I grew up on 3 blind mice and it didn't turn me into a mass murderer. I grew up on Hansel and Gretal and it didn't give me nightmares! I'm educated to degree level and am a retired primary school headteacher. STOP over thinking a few words and if this is all you have to worry about in your life then you're a very fortunate lady!

I don't think you're wasting your effort at all, especially considering how old those books are and entrenched in the stereotypes of that day.

Does it really matter it's a nursery rhyme - who cares. join in, sing and just have fun!🙄

btw I would never EVER use the words lady or gentleman. Way WAY too loaded with sexism....and the word 'ladies' is frequently used in a derogatory way, particularly in any film involving american military ever.

I came off after a game of badminton where me an my recently graduated PhD student had played together and won against two male members of the department.

For starters this was a thing when it really shouldn't be and we had to say twice we were happy to take them on because obviously by default we might not be able to deal with enormity of taking on two men...then we had to put up with them getting stroppy because they were losing and they thought their pride was on the line...then we won. I hope you will forgive me to responding to their somewhat bitterly spat out "very well played ladies" with 'that's doctors actually'....

OK by "many" I meant numerically, as in thousands of black women are cleaners.

It is also true that thousands of cleaners are black women, if you prefer.

It is also true that thousands of white women are cleaners.

And of course that thousands of women are cleaners.

All simply facts. I did not make that statement to say anything about what proportion of black women are cleaners, but to point out that even though there are lots of black female cleaners - fact - it is not OK to make a stereotype indicating that.

This was in response to people saying "It's not sexist because mummies DO chatter on the bus".

In other words, it's still possible to have a stereotype, even if that stereotypical situation does actually happen.

I used race as a comparison (which, NB, is not to say they are the SAME, it's a comparison) because people are much more able to see that kind of stereotype and find it unacceptable. Rightly so of course. But the same kind of stereotyping happens to women and people often don't think it's a problem.

yet there's more than one post on here saying that we "natter" - that we talk idly.

Do we not

I appreciate the fact that we don't want stereotype, the kind that see women as mindless beings sitting at home chattering and having nothing of worth to say, but we do natter. It isn't a negative. It's just something that is part of our lives. It's also something children will see. I'm sure all of our kids have seen Mummy spending a couple of hours on Mumsnet. It doesn't have to define us. Just because it's included in a kids song doesn't mean it defines us. If anything it could be a childs very simplistic view of their mother. I remember my mum as working hard then coming home and chatting on the phone for an hour or so. So yes she did natter! But kids grow up and see women as much more than that, they don't automatically see the complexities of the person and they don't need to. I'm sure my child will see me as someone who gives him cuddles and is online a lot. But when he's older he'll realise I'm much more. It doesn't have to be included in a song though to change his attitude.

rhombus that's what I ascertained from your post, if it helps.

If you want accuracy it should be:
'Mummies on the bus go text, text, text'
'Daddies on the bus stare into space'
'Children on the bus they whinge & whine'
'Babies on the bus do a smelly poo'

but maybe I'm just having a bad day...!

It's just a song! Should we changed the farmer wants a wife to the farmer wants a wife or a husband depending on their sexual preference although we don't assume that the farmer is a man because women are equally good at being farmers, the wife may want a child but go back to work if she so wishes without judgement etc.

Of course women do talk idly. So do men. But when people see women talk together the assumption is that it's idle talk. That's what these "mummies on the bus go chatter chatter chatter" is reinforcing.

(And don't even get me started on being referred to as "mummy".)

The farmer wants a partner. Problem solved.

What a sad world some people live in. The is why true feminism will never be understood. Posts like this are worse than any sexist crap we have to deal with.

Screams of self worth issues. And sexist without even realising it. Almost as if it's a major achievement that a woman can be highly educated and qualified and hold a snr position in the corporate male dominated world.

As I said, sad world some people live in.

As I said- all good amunition for the next time anyone says feminists are dismissive and rude. Keep 'em coming!

Funny that bert given a lot of women posting on here not saying YANBU are feminists ha.

In haven't RTFT but please tell me you took this up with the library? Priceless!

I actually think it's sadder that we live in a deeply sexist world where two women a week get killed by abusive partners, many more are stuck in abusive relationships, men die needlessly because of the stigma of them admitting weakness and MH issues, women are held back and discriminated against at work and still do do far more than their fair share of domestic tasks. Now that's sad.

My DS came home from nursery singing "the daddies on the bus read their newspaper" which irritated me no end, so I know where you're coming from OP!

I love the idea of proving that mums chatting on the bus is sexist and inaccurate on, erm, a chat forum aimed at mums.

Jason- have you ever heard the word "chattering" applied to Mes?

wtf of course it's applied to men as to well of groups of both genders not just women.

It's not like feisty - a word that only seems to be applied to small dogs/animals and women.

The chattering classes is a generally derogatory term first coined by Auberon Waugh often used by pundits and political commentators to refer to a politically active, socially concerned and 'highly' educated section of the "metropolitan middle class", especially those with political, media, and academic connections. It is sometimes used to refer to a liberal elite,
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chattering_classes

That a well word use of chattering that's thrown around in the media a lot - it's referring to a whole class of people men and women - unless you really believe the highly educated middle class with political connections are like a the mythical Amazons entirely female.

DH, who is a SAHP, got turned away from a baby massage group because it was for Mum's.

^This is awful.

Men were not unknowns at the groups I went to though always out numbered but were made very welcome.

Most talk round my young children when toddler age was nattering and chatting - idle talk - trying to keep multiple small children in view and safe and do stuff on top isn't conductive to deep thought provoking conversations IME.