To have just realised that Mr Collins got Mrs Collins in the family way.

[squoosh]

Have just re-read Pride & Prejudice for the first time in yonks and at the end Mr Collins mentions 'dear Charlotte’s situation, and his expectation of a young olive-branch. How had I not noticed that before?

I'd always imagined dear Charlotte avoiding that messy business by keeping him occupied with his sermon writing and his gardening and his pash on Lady Catherine.

But she was a woman who knew what she wanted so I wouldn't be surprised if she was the one who took conjugal matters in hand.

Good old P&P, the book that keeps on giving.

I'm pleasantly surprised that some old gimmers posters can remember the Elizabeth Garvie/David Rintoul version!

Yes, it WAS a bit stiff, but to me those characters at least were beautifully cast.

Lovely thread, this. Must read everything again. Thanks to the poster who linked to the "Radical Jane Austen" book.

Can't wait.

Much as I loved P&P, I preferred her later novels, particularly Persuasion and Emma. And such a shame that Sanditon didn't get finished.

Sense & Sensibility is possibly the JA novel where this contrast is most in evidence - Marianne's behaviour, her focus on feelings over forms, on inner guidance over social guidance, bring her close to the position of a heroine of 'sensibility' fiction, if not exactly Rousseauvian, then close enough to be both morally and politically suspect to JA. Versus Elinor's more calm, rational, undemonstrative heroism, which is all about a dutiful attention to the feelings of others.

Where would Willoughby fall? Would he be considered alright by the Rousseauvian school, or would his inner guidance be considered lacking? (Not because he marries for money, but because he seduces/rapes (people back then weren't really good at differentiating that) a girl and leaves her to deal with the consequences - I have nothing but contempt for him.)

Oh, and Colonel Brandon - he does duel with Willoughby, which is rather silly, but was the tradition at the time, however, his taking care of an illegitimate child he has no blood connections to at all damages his reputation with those who believe he wouldn't care for the girl if she wasn't his daughter ... but doesn't do any real damage because he's a man and therefore allowed to have illegitimate children.

Perhaps Brandon is Austen's idea of a man who follows his individual morals, but is still okay because he harms no one else in doing so? He is presented as good match for Marianne, after all.

Just because Mrs B had several babies in a row doesn't mean she would have continued to do so. I wonder how much people knew about fertility? Once Mrs B reached 30+ she may not have been so immediately fertile and if they shagged once or twice a month she wouldn't have necessarily got pregnant and maybe they gave up assuming it wouldn't happen.

VestalVirgin

The first Eliza is Brandon's cousin as well as being his sister-in-law; apart from his sister, Eliza No. 2 is the nearest relation he has.

Ooooo - so much goodness on this thread since I last checked in

Fanny Dashwood possibly less manipulative than the brother is willing to be manipulated, that sequence in the carriage shows how easy it is for him to go from generosity to a total reinterpretation of what his Papa wanted. Simmering resentment for his stepmother and half sisters stemming from childhood rejection/belief they were preferred?? That's what I always wondered.

Great posts from shovetheholly

It was I suggested the Book Club should I start it in Books or have I been beaten to it?

RE KnickersWeasel Fanny Price yes she was heartless to Crawford and probably could have reformed his character.....or been miserable and constantly cheated on. To be fair they were all likely cheated on.

Mr B with the syph???!!! Perish the thought!!!!!!

I really do not think Mr B had cock rot!

More likely after the appearance of Lydia he decided to throw the towel in, a pretty easy decision for him as I'm sure his disdain for his wife was pretty much complete at that stage. He could barely stand talking to her for more than 5 mins never mind getting down and dirty with the woman.

Tis done!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/what_were_reading/2619713-The-Genteel-Reading-Circle-For-Ladies?watched=1

I think people are probably familiar with secondary infertility vince, although Mrs B was very likely under 30 when she had Lydia and could even have been under 25. That's not to say it can't strike at any age of course, but as the text discusses them continuing to hope for many more years after Lydia, probably they were trying without success in Mrs Bs late and potentially even mid 20s. It's also possible she did have other children subsequently and they didn't survive.

Maryz Andrew Davies famously gave Colin Firth the stage direction to imagine that Darcy was having to converse while having an inconvenient stiffy whenever he encountered Lizzie, so that wasn't constipation in his face.

In other news, I blame you lot for discovering, on google, that David Bamber, whose Mr. Collins may be the least unattractive man ever to grace our screens, is actually quite compelling-looking when he's not simpering and toadying. I'm a bit discombobulated by finding this out.

That's least attractive, not least unattractive...

Maybe if we ask very nicely MNHQ could get Jane Austen on for a webchat.

Annie

I saw the photo and was like but who is THAT stunner, when did he play Darcy??

And then I read your post.....

Genuine sexual confusion

Love the idea of poor Darcy trying to hide a semi and still behave like a gentleman

Is that a genuine question Countess?

I remember she was wanted for US TV at the height of the BBC series

My! That David Bamber's not bad looking at all! Hids portrayal i think coloured all other impressions of Mr Collins, because his brilliant slimy, toadyish portrayal was so great!

Thanks for the new thread! Lucky it's t'Internet, innit, so I can pretend to be 'genteel and a Lady!!'

Actually seeing as someone else was told off merely for not having seen the Beeb one

Countess

GET OUT --------->>>>>>>

David Bamber is the definitive Mr Collins imho, P&P had been my favourite book for years before the bbc series came out and I was amazed at how accurately he matched the image in my head. And the superb Alison Steadman as Mrs B. Much as I love Colin Firth as Darcy I did prefer the actor who played him in Lost in Austen, can't remember his name though.

Can I ask a question not related to JA please but this is on a similar theme. In Gone With the Wind what gyno condition does Melanie suffer with? I've often wondered what she died from. I did think pre-eclampsia maybe but then wasn't she v early on in the pregnancy that killed her, does pre-eclampsia come on that early? It's puzzled me for years.

I never thought when I started this thread that it would end with people practically salivating over Mr Collins. You can pretend it's David Bamber you're admiring but we all know the truth!

David Bamber was utterly superb, and he's another role I think it would've been great fun to play. I know he's a bit older than the one in the text, but he killed it.

Ooh, I'd like to know that about Melanie too.

In the book it's implied she's terribly thin (and there's mention of people starving genteelly to death), but surely if she were thin to the point of dying of malnutrition, she'd long ago have stopped having periods?

....and of course Mr Bingley became an English teacher.

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3375199/Forget-Darcy-happened-Bingley-Colin-Firth-s-Pride-Prejudice-star-shunned-stardom-English-teacher.html

Did she die after giving birth? Then puerperal fever I suppose?

Yes, it is mentioned quite a bit I think how small thin and narrow in the hips she was. Lucy - if I remember right she didn't give birth as such, it was implied that it was early on in the pregnancy as no-one had noticed she was expecting and so I've always assumed it was a miscarriage - probably around 3-4 months max.

I really do not think Mr B had cock rot!

There's a Mansfield Park 'sequel' (Mansfield Revisited by Joan Aiken, she of The Wolves of Willoughby Chase etc) I rather like, which rehabilitates the Crawfords as funny and clever and interesting, has a likeable Henry Crawford fall for Susan Price as Mary Crawford lies dying at Mansfield (Fanny and Edmund have gone to sort out the Antiguan estate after Sir Thomas's death, leaving Susan to look after Lady Bertram, and HC is revealed as guiltless of Maria Bertram's elopement), and ends by marrying Susan to Tom Bertram.

P and P says Mrs Bennet didn't give up hope of having a son to cut off the entail for many years after Lydia's birth, which suggests the Bennets were still having sex and Mrs B thought she was still fertile, at least.

Everysongbird.
I apologise.