To have just realised that Mr Collins got Mrs Collins in the family way.

[squoosh]

Have just re-read Pride & Prejudice for the first time in yonks and at the end Mr Collins mentions 'dear Charlotte’s situation, and his expectation of a young olive-branch. How had I not noticed that before?

I'd always imagined dear Charlotte avoiding that messy business by keeping him occupied with his sermon writing and his gardening and his pash on Lady Catherine.

But she was a woman who knew what she wanted so I wouldn't be surprised if she was the one who took conjugal matters in hand.

Good old P&P, the book that keeps on giving.

He would be a better choice than Wickham!

That's David Bamber. Excellent actor and he certainly fits my picture of Mr C.

'If Charlotte doesn't have a son to inherit it from Mr Collins then she will be in the same difficult situation that Mrs Bennet is in.'

Ah good point NewYear, I never thought of that!

Practical Charlotte.

Agree with dido and irene. There's a really nice pop history book by Stella Tillyard about four Georgian sisters, and they are very posh and well-bred, but also very practical talking about the facts of life (including extended discussion of nipples and breastfeeding and jokes about getting lovers if they got bored with their husbands).

I don't think Darcy would actually have been very good in bed. I think it'd have been poor Lizzie in her nightie watching him square his jaw and mutter inarticulately before doing some self-conscious missionary position.

He does have hang-ups about sexy men (with reason, but he does), and he's no good at social intercourse. Judging by the way he is about dancing, he'd be the sort to be utterly shocked at the idea of Lizzie being anything other than passively appreciative.

That is indeed David Bamber. I had the pleasure of seeing him completely stark bollock naked last night. ( In Camping on Sky Atlantic. Julia Davis' new comedy).

This thread has got me to thinking of all the RL young women of certain social classes of by-gone days who entered into similar marriages. How awful it must have been to know you were going to spend the rest of your life with someone you did not love, possibly even actively disliked, simply because of family pressure to make a good marriage or because the alternative was genteel (or real) poverty or servitude as a governess or companion. I think girls of the working/lower classes may have been more able and more willing to look out for themselves by entering domestic service than a girl of a 'better' class with no practical skills.

That picture of BBC Mr. Collins! He played it brilliantly. He is the definitive Mr. Collins despite my love and adoration of Tom Hollander.

I seriously doubt that girls of 'lower classes' had more options than wealthier women.

In the film version they had to add a scene at the end because of US test audiences complaining they wanted to see the D'Arcys post marriage. Keira Knightly is wafting about in D'arcy's shirt, post-coital, and she's looking like it was all top notch.

I think if Lizzy managed to charm him enough that he stopped caring about her gobby mother and slutty sister, she could certainly persuade him to loosen up in the bedroom. She was quite teasing for almost all of their relationship and he learned to enjoy it, so I think he could learn to be playful in bed.

I seriously doubt that girls of 'lower classes' had more options than wealthier women.

They did have more job opportunities than just "governess". So, they didn't have to marry ... except if their employer raped them and they wanted to avoid the stigma of being an unmarried mother.
They certainly didn't have it much better, but they could choose more options than just "wife" or "governess". In theory.

I have always hoped Mr. Collins wasn't much interested in sex and/or let Charlotte talk him down to two times a week.

Or perhaps she could convince him that she was having her period for three weeks.

Yeah, I always thought that Charlotte was a very strong woman who made her choices and went through with them. She does spend a lot of time in the back parlour that Mr Collins is not keen on, as Elizabeth observes. However rumpypumpy wouldn't be completely avoidable if she wanted children (they didn't have turkey basters back then).

I don't think it was that big sacrifice for Charlotte. She had security, her own household, a man to protect her of a vry decent standing. He wasn't mean or abusive, not the most intelligent but kind. And she certainly didn't come across as not aware of her marital duties.
OK, I would have chewed my right hand off if I were to be married to a man like that but those were times when women had to be very realistic about their choices and they were aware of their limited options which Mrs. Bennet mentions several times.
I believe that they developed affection for each other, certainly not passionate love but a relationship based on understang of a mutually beneficial connection and companionship.

PirateSmile I think girls in the lower classes would have more chance of choosing their husband rather than being married off. Mrs Bennett's attitude towards Lizzy and Jane was the norm. They were lucky that Mr Bennett didn't share it.

Has anyone else read Longbourn by Jo Baker (reworking of P&P from the servants' POV)? One of the things I liked about it was that the servants have a different view of Mr Collins from the usual one - he's no hero or anything but they're not quite as down on him as Lizzie is. Maybe Charlotte too would have a different view.

I don't think parents further down the social scale would have felt any happier about their daughters choosing some random person, would they? Surely it'd be a similar thing, just with less money involved.

Cross post.

countess, yes, I was thinking about that too!

I think if a poor girl's mother wanted her to marry a particular boy she too would've had little choice.

Without the money, though, they would arguably have less power over their daughters.

Why so, countess?

And wouldn't poorer women have had an extra complication, in that if they did go into service or similar, they'd have been seen as fair game by a lot of male employers.

Yes I've read it Countess, and it did make me try and look at Mr Collins through different eyes when I re-read P&P. God life was such a grind for domestic staff wasn't it? Even in a fairly nice position like the Bennet household where the housekeeper was a kindly sort.

If your parents aren't giving or bequeathing you anything, you can sod off and marry who you like. Whereas if you are dependent on the money they will give you when you are married to maintain the style of living to which you are accustomed, you need them to approve of your choice. Of course, if your intended loves you enough to not care about the money, you can elope. But the normal assumption among middle and upper classes is that marriage is a financial arrangement.