To have just realised that Mr Collins got Mrs Collins in the family way.

[squoosh]

Have just re-read Pride & Prejudice for the first time in yonks and at the end Mr Collins mentions 'dear Charlotte’s situation, and his expectation of a young olive-branch. How had I not noticed that before?

I'd always imagined dear Charlotte avoiding that messy business by keeping him occupied with his sermon writing and his gardening and his pash on Lady Catherine.

But she was a woman who knew what she wanted so I wouldn't be surprised if she was the one who took conjugal matters in hand.

Good old P&P, the book that keeps on giving.

Isn't that what call the men are doing at the ball? Choosing women to marry? They would assume one of them would marry them. Bingley and Darcy are basically bride shopping too!

Well, yes, but they do so within the rules of polite society.

I once researched dancing etiquette for the time - the man is supposed to pretend that he doesn't know whether he will be accepted as dance partner, while the woman is absolutely required to accept, unless she isn't going to dance at all.

Yes, in fact, those men can all be very sure that a woman will marry them, but the polite thing is to pretend not to know that. (With Darcy's marriage proposal, it is explicitly mentioned that he pretends to be nervous, while Lizzy can tell he's very sure of himself.)

Mr. Collins' problem is that he doesn't know, or doesn't care about the rules for this game. He thinks very highly of himself, and is too stupid to hide this fact.
Also observed when he introduces himself to Mr. Darcy, which is something one just doesn't do - but Mr. Collins does.

acrossthepond yes I was very scornful of arranged marriage after some of the dull accountant types my mother paired me up with basically on the basis that they had a good job , which I think must be the equivalent of Austens '10,000 a year. But lots of arranged marriages are very happy, and many marriages based on love are very unhappy in the end. I'm happy with my husband-by-choice but I sometimes wonder how much easier my life would be with my rich accountant husband, who I could encourage to work really, really long hours only coming home for the occasional impregnation while I swanned around in our big house. .. basically a modern day Charlotte Lucas

I got the impression that Collins isn't well bred, so doesn't know the etiquette. He's just under a patronage. I'm coming across as a Collins apologist but I just remember reading the book and thinking everyone was a bit unfair to him!

The person who hasn't seen the Beeb version being told to Get Out

Seriously though I've read the book maybe 3 times.

I've lost count of series rewatches that's were all my quoting comes from

THE BOOK !! PAH!!! in reality am massive annoying book nerd who looks down on those who don't read

Matt Smith was great in the film wasnt he guineapigs

Continues to find cause to bring Matt Smith up

Did anyone else think charlotte was clearly pregnant when lizzie visited her in the bbc version? The way she was standing and the way her dress hung - plus wasn't there something about mr collins making a massive fuss about her getting in the coach (maybe misremembering that) - anyway certainly i realised (wrongly?) that she was! I realise the timing may be different from the book, but the impression i got was that they'd reached a good modus vivendi!
In terms of his kowtowing to lady c, was mr collins not just doing what you had to do in a career in those days? He was dependent on her condescension to some extent - just as someone might laugh at the boss' jokes these days, only perhaps to a greater extreme!

Oh and plus, shouldn't we applaud mr collins for introducing himself to darcy - why shouldn't he, just because he didn't happen to be born as rich?

What, you think you're better than me?!

It wasn't the speaking to him

It was addressing him before they had been correctly introduced

Breach of etiquette

everysongbird yes he was very good- and disconcertingly attractive! He really seems to have grown into his face since his Doctor Who days

Ah i see - though would it have been a breach of etiquette if mr darcy had addressed mr colllins before being introduced, as well? I was assuming mr c had to wait because he was of lower social standing - in which case i'd say up with the workers!

Mrs Bennett could be under 40, assuming Jane is about 22. IIRC her age isn't stated in the text, but as Lizzie is 20 when she goes to visit Charlotte Lucas, I always thought Jane wasn't much older. In theory I guess she could be 23-24 without her age being commented on, but I read her as not much older than Lizzie. So if Mrs B got married at maybe 17 and upduffed quickly, she could be 39 at the start of the book. But I always thought she was probably well into her 40s because they'd given up hope of her having another child. And she's obviously pretty fertile. She has 5 grown up children. Given the rates of infant mortality even amongst the rich, most probably she'd lost a couple of children too, and if she hadn't that would be even more remarkable for the time. You'd be very fortunate to get every single one of your child into adulthood. So good breeding stock, that one. We know that women often gave birth well into their 40s then too.

OTOH it's a weird pattern they have. Five kids very close together (even if Jane is 24 that's a 9 year gap max, and I think if she were older there'd be something about her being an old maid and maybe her and Lizzie wouldn't be as close, so 24 absolute tops). So a couple who clearly conceive healthy children easily, then nothing. Maybe she had a birth injury or something, but apparently they tried for a son for many years after Lydia so that seems unlikely. Unusual to be so fertile then stop all of a sudden. I am probably pondering Mrs Bennett's nether(field) regions more than is strictly necessary here.

He was dependent on her condescension

CORRECTION

her most gracious condescension

Yeah me too really It's snobbery because they are of a higher status! Well good that he did thatand in my head, he still looks like Matt Smith, so I'd have been "trying for an heir" at least 3 times a day😅if I was Charlotte

In the BBC version they have separate bedrooms - I suspect after the FIFTH gender disappointment she washed her hands of the whole affair and wouldn't let him near her.

Harlot I did like your nether(field) pun but the denizens of Longbourn and Merryton would be most grievously scandalised at your pondering on their bed chamber behaviour and the possible condition of Mrs B's undercarriage.

You know in the BBC adaptation where it shows the assembly rooms in Meryton and then those pissed up tramps dancing round outside and one of them falls in the trough? I'd be out there with that shower of reprobates.

I may have watched that once too many times...

I read somewhere that the dances were deliberately long as it was the only opportunity the couple had to actually speak to one another without the necessity for a chaperone and that's how they got to know each other, hence Mr Collins requesting the first two dances with Lizzie at the Netherfield Ball.

Oh yes every one must avoid FULL WEST windows at all costs.

I may have watched that once too many times...

Don't be silly one can never watch it too many times, what on earth do you talk of?

Fair enough to feel sorry for lydia - her parents really didn't look after her properly. Not much 'parenting' going on - they should have been protecting her from losing her reputation. On that mr darcy was right, i think!
What was rhe picture with colonel forster's wife in brighton - was she in on it, or did wickham pull the wool over her eyes as well?

I'm glad Mr Bennet's sense of duty was in short supply when it came to Mr Collins' proposal. He loved her too much to see her with that crawler.

Well that is certainly true Maryz! He crossed his fingers and hoped a financial solution would present itself. Lizzy is wise to his faults too, there are a few pages (after Mr Darcy's first proposal I think) where she ponders the failings of both parents in their marriage. Even though she's much fonder of her father she doesn't heap the blame on her mother.

I like that every character has their pros and cons. There aren't any goodies or baddies.