to wonder how the country will cope with hundreds of thousands more people each year?

[evilcherub]

If the UK is going to continue to have immigration of hundreds of thousands every year (which is more likely if we don't leave the EU) and the Tories apparently having no real interest in building more genuinely affordable homes (because lower house prices do not bring in votes for the Tories), then where are the millions of extra people and families going to live (when there is already a massive housing crisis and homelessness is going through the roof)? Also, what about all the extra schools needed, the extra hospitals (when at the moment they cannot cope and the Tories want to privatise them anyway), the jobs etc? Unless you are well off/bought your home years ago and have a well-established, well paying job, then immigration means extreme and expensive competition for housing, school places, healthcare, jobs etc. I just don't see it ending well.

Healthy competition in a market place is basic economics. But don't worry when we leave the EU we will all be paying through the nose for basics and skills while our salaries and pensions remain the same. It's worrying. Very worrying.

And this - anyone in a position to complain about this has been balancing their household budget on the back of those earning beneath the living wage. The hypocrisy of your typical affluent, Guardian-reading Brexiter who has a cleaner but claims they are poor.

Italian views

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36080216

They have been building new schools and extending old schools for the past five years here. I think some councils have planned ahead better than others and I think it's too easy to just blame immigration. The nhs is on its knees because of being underfunded and not having enough frontline staff.

They've also been building houses here but no one can afford to buy them, so they appear yo sell and then come up immediately for rent I'd really support cheaper housing being built with non traditional methods. I don't understand why there isn't more of a push for it. Governments used to build pre fabs in the past if there was a lack of housing. I don't get it.

Crabbitface

My post was 'a pile of pish' ? - charming!

Re Irn-Bru - yes. But my children were not given any cultural food/drinks on any other Days - Chinese / indian / English / welsh / American - only Scottish - that's my point.

Re SNP badges being worn in Schools - Yes, I did report it to my local LA HQ.
They asked for photographic proof. They also informed me that 'taking photographs on or around school property was against the law'. Badges continued to be worn, though there was a gradual tail off after the IndyRef.

I note you have no comments on the bias of the Curriculum
(harder to accuse me of lying here as it is all enshrined).

Perhaps you'd like to see the letter saying that my child has no Specific Learning Difficulties but is hampered by his (non Scottish) accent? (child has Dyslexia)

HildaOgdensMuriel - thanks for posting your experience of SNP Central too!
Not just me 'with a chip on my shoulder' then...

Alasalas2

I said 'the living wage' - not the minimum wage. As one from the charitable sector, do you think that the average low-paid worker is earning a living wage?

Whatever your income from your charitable enterprise, it's highly improbable that you are a homeowner employing a small army of builders & a cleaner on a household income of £10/hr. Please see your earlier post. There is simply no way that you are not affluent.

Can you not see the hypocrisy of calling Brexiters xenophobic while your own reasons for staying in are your self-interest in keeping wages low? Can you really not see that?

It was quite fraught at the time wheel wasn't it? I think it was easier where I live to be a Yes in public but tbf the vote was split evenly.
The confident no voters I came across did seem to be living in Edinburgh.
We have known a fair few Snp activists over many years too which is why we think we are in the heartland! The high school had a debate but outside of that ( and the kids' Facebook spats) nothing much and no teacher opinion!

Sorry but I got my money the old fashioned way: grafting.

Never did I suggest otherwise. Rather, I said that you have an affluent household that benefits from low wages, and this is the real reason you want to stay in the EU (not because you're more enlightened). But you can keep on avoiding this point if you like.

Talk of stretched services reminds me that as a primary school child in the j1970s, my school had 4 temporary classrooms which were put on the playing field after the extension built in the 1960s quickly ran out of space.

Oh, and 4 of the existing classrooms had been condemned and earmarked for demolition, but were pressed into service.

Apologies but I really struggle to see the link between the house price increase and the economic immigrants in UK.

As far as I've noticed, the only impact immigration seems to have on that matter works the other way round : think of Britons buying secondary residences in Provence, Languedoc Roussillon, Brittany, etc, at unreasonnable prices for the local market, thus putting high pressure on natives first-time homeowners.

And the same can be said about French buying for retirement in "cheap" Marrakech, naturally. ;-)

If I were to compare with France, I'd say the buy-to-let fashion appears far more common here than there and certainly explains a lot.

How do I benefit from low wages?

Please apple explain.

OK, I'll repeat what I said upthread.

You're benefitting from the general depression of wages that results from an influx of cheap labour. I am not suggesting that you are personally exploiting your plumber, electrician, plasterer, builder, cleaner or painter-decorator but rather that you would be paying more for these services in the absence of unfettered immigration even though you have purposefully not set about to find the cheapest source of labour thus far.

I would love to know whom I am exploiting seeing as everyone else earns more per hour than I do.

I suspect that your income is not the only one in your household.

I have no problem with introducing a points system for skilled migrants. The problem is that a lot of immigration is unskilled, low paid which means taxpayer top-ups for things like housing benefit and tax credits. If, as some posters say, we need more immigration because we need young people to pay for the pensions etc of the older generation, how does importing a vast amount of low skilled workers whose income is often below the tax threshold or pay minimal tax and cost more in terms of benefits, schooling, health care etc (and of course will require pensions themselves at some point) fix the problem? The only people who seem to benefit from very low waged immigration are the wealthy who benefit from cheap childcare (subsidised by everyone else's taxes via benefits) and who get lots of housing benefit by renting out their BTL properties 4 to a room. In the meantime, lots of low paid workers have seen their already low wages reduced even more and they are having to pay far more for housing because there is so much competition and wages are being undercut.

Question: How exactly will an increase of wages for builders make building of houses more affordable and attractive to investors?
The underlying factor in the high cost of much new housing is the cost of building land.

Near us, plot of building land, 90x30 (that's FEET, not metres) = 100k-120k.
Also near us, 7.5 acres of farmland: 75k. 7.5 acres has space for over hundred of the £100k building plots, even after allowing for access roads.

Why is building land expensive? Because we have tight planning controls. Why do we have those? To prevent urban sprawl. Why does urban sprawl bother people? Because it eats into the countryside. And why does that bother people? Because we have a high population density, and the countryside is seen as an important resource.

but in other places there is a huge amount of unreasonable NIMBYism ('Our village won't be a village any more' kind of thing
Believe me, I live in a small town which has absorbed a huge amount of development over the last 30 years. But I suppose I'm a NIMBY for saying, can we have a break now, please?

Apologies but I really struggle to see the link between the house price increase and the economic immigrants in UK.

The more scare a resource is, the more it costs.

100 houses, 90 people = buyers market
100 houses, 110 people = sellers market.

Adding more people to the population of the UK without building houses to match will increase demand and increase prices.

Apologies but I really struggle to see the link between the house price increase and the economic immigrants in UK.

Do you not think that more people needing/buying/renting housing would logically drive up the price of the housing stock?

As far as I've noticed, the only impact immigration seems to have on that matter works the other way round : think of Britons buying secondary residences in Provence, Languedoc Roussillon, Brittany, etc, at unreasonnable prices for the local market, thus putting high pressure on natives first-time homeowners.
If better-off immigrants push up prices in rural France, then surely people moving out of expensive London push up price in less-expensive East Anglia. They see, 200k for a three bed house! Miracle! Snap it up. We see, 200k for a 3-bed house! That's bananas, who can afford that?

No doubt what the young French trying to get on the housing ladder in Brittany think....

Do you not think that more people needing/buying/renting housing would logically drive up the price of the housing stock?
Apparently numbers work differently in France....

Apparently numbers work differently in France...

Numbers work the same, it's the French that work differently. Much more aligned to renting rather than buying and much less about using property as an investment vehicle.

There's something vaguely amusing about people agitating for a Brexit by pointing to other countries in Europe saying "we could do what they do" ...

that if we stay in the EU then when Turkey join millions more will want to come. Nothing personal against Turkey but I feel the weight of numbers will overwhelm us and also be an open door for terrorists

What the ruddy fuck? *open door^ for terrorists? Turkey has been trying to join the EU for a very long time and hasn't been successful, for the same reason it isn't going to be successful any time soon; its poor human rights record. And you are being absolutely ridiculous to suggest millions of the population will all rush to the UK. if I were a new EU citizen, UK wouldn't even make the top 3 on my list of places to move.

Anyone who whinges about the population without even being willing to discuss the birthrate loses all credibility. There is a lot wrong with this country and I do not think these problems can be attributed to immigration.