To think most people don't believe their diet will have an impact on their health

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This is just something I have been thinking about recently. There has been so much in the news about the damage sugar is doing to us, the number of people with type 2 diabetes is rising at a huge rate, more and more kids are becoming fat and having their teeth pulled out, etc.

And yet - I get the feeling most people think it's "nanny state rubbish". On mumsnet threads people always say "children need treats". I was talking to a work colleague about sugary drinks and her view was that water is too boring so she was quite happy for her kids to have juice and cordial with every meal and snack.

I am not sure what the solution is - maybe proper food and health education at schools.

People on here are aware there's sugar in apples, right? Fruit isn't sugar free snack.

And that if you are using fast acting yeast, you need to add sugar to bread to get it to rise.

People eat too much food for the lifestyle they have, previous generations weren't healthier by choice, but because they couldn't access cheap food and transport. It is not an entirely bad thing we have access to cheap and plentiful foods.

People know eating crap is bad for them, they also know they are likely to live 20+ years longer than their great grandparents even if they do get illnesses linked to poor diet. Humans aren't designed to eat this much sugar, they also aren't designed to regularly get to over 60. Many people take the view nothing will make them immortal, so why live without the joy yummy food gives them?

(Declaration here, am a size 6, but while I don't eat the way I want, that's due to completely shallow reasons of wanting to look good, I'm not motivated to avoid cake for breakfast because I'm worried about my health)

Mominatrix you are offering quite an extreme food view. Not eating any processed or manufacturered food is extreme for most people in their real lives. You only have to go out in the city at lunch to see how many office workers buy a pre prepared lunch. How many people buy a take out coffee daily. How many meetings take place in coffee shops or cafes or
Restaurants. How many children have school dinners. How few people have time to cook from scratch every single day. How many people eat lunch out at the weekends, at the pub or grab a sandwich at the soft play. How busy people are saving 10
Minutes when they get in from work throwing a pack of stir fry veg mix in the wok rather than buying their own.

Food has changed. The production and use of ingredients. It is too hard for people. Stop blaming each other and start lobbying big businessss go behave more responsibly. The sugar tax is the start of this.

For a long time the diet industry was completely static because the industry was constructed around the idea that if people couldn't loose weight it was their fault for not being dedicated enough. Weight watchers made billions over 40 years selling this. It's taken all that time for people to hit back and say no, your product doesn't work. Same will
Happen with food manufactures

I use fast acting yeast in my bread and never add sugar and it always rises!

When I am dictator I'll ban all fizzy drinks, the amount that people pour down their throats is ridiculous and the lack of understanding that 0 calories with sweetener are fine. (I may allow prosecco to slip through though)

Humans are programmed to be as lazy as possible. If there's an easy, quick way to do something we'll do it. Cue convenience meals, crisps, cakes, biscuits, bread and sugary cereals. It's true what another poster said about our brains preferring short term highs as well, corporations knew all of this and how addictive sugar is to the human brain when making their products so we'd buy more of it. Simple as.

But you don't NEED to be this way, you can fight off your natural inbedded instincts. It's just sometimes a bit more of a pain in the arse which is what people don't like.

Vegetables are cheap as fuck. Morrisons sell a bag of carrots for 40p, cucumber 30p, butternut 80p, onions 50p, broccoli 40p. They're expensive if you're buying more exotic ones like asparagus which is £1.50 for about ten stalks... But if you stick to the basic good old veggies we know and love, cheap as anything. Fruit CAN be expensive if you're buying things like grapes, melon and berries. But a big bunch of bananas is 80p! And I get a humongous bag of apples that lasts a week and half for £2.

I've seen one family walking to my DC's primary school hand their four children a minions cookie each for breakfast. The bag of cookies was £1. I just thought to myself, you could have got a big bunch of bananas for the same amount and given them 2 bananas each if that's the only money you have left. But people don't think that way. They take the car when they could walk because it's cold or because it's raining a tiny bit. We walk in all weathers because I don't drive and can't bloody afford £7 in taxis there and back each time it starts raining a bit. They give squash because their DC 'don't like water'. If you've never offered them squash they won't know any bloody different and will drink what's offered!

I have a friend who's 26 and flat out refuses to drink water because it doesn't taste of anything. He also won't eat fruit and barely eats vegetables. I cooked up delicious porridge one morning for us with coconut milk and fruit, turned his nose up at it completely. Prefers to eat coco pops. He's overweight.

There's really simple changes you can make but people don't want to. Coco pops to weetabix. White bread to brown. Biscuits to a banana. Fruit is one of the most convenient and quick snacks around. It's natures candy yet people still want to grab for the packet of biscuits. In there lies your problem. It's not that people are too busy, they're too lazy. I'm a busy working single mum but I find time to make a god damn healthy meal because I don't want to be fat and I don't want my DC to be either. Even if you batch cook on your day off and freeze you know. Or if you're really stretched for time make a salad! A big old salad. With fruit and fresh yogurt for after. Excuses are making us fat, not lack of time and money.

suppose l know you were making a joke but your comment about prosecco - because you like it you'd let it slip through. I really hate the idea of banning fizzy drinks. If we are going that route surely cigarettes should be banned first.

I think food manufacturers are culpable in that their motivation is to sell cheap products for as much money as possible, and if that involves stuffing processed food with sugar and other nasties and then telling the public how healthy and authentic it is, then that is what they will do.
Food and drink manufacturers are selling an addictive product and it is in heir interest to get consumers hooked from an early age.

That said I despair when, for example, someone expresses amazement that I make pancakes from scratch - because it's so hard to mix flor, milk and egg together - even though they I assume do the same with their packet mixes.

And I do question the whole "we're all too busy to cook" ethos - it really doesn't take that long to put certain simple meals together.

I think a big part of the problem is that the effects of a poor diet are so long term.

I think plenty of people who eat junk food know it's not good for the health, especially if you eat it often. But it can take decades for things like diabetes and heart disease and morbid obesity to catch up with you.
So it's easy to get lulled into a false sense of security and think things like "oh, one cake won't hurt, I'll start eating apples instead of cake later" because there's plenty of time to turn things around and fix what you eat before it gets to the point where you get diagnosed with something nasty as a consequence. Especially if you're feeling pushed for time or stressed out about life events and so on.

I know I do this myself. Intellectually I know fine well junk food's a bad health decision, but I really struggle to make myself believe this on an emotional level when I'm stood in the supermarket looking at junk food on the shelf. Plus junk foods tend to be a lot more addictive than fruit and veg.

I think it's safe to assume that when people refer to sugar in food, they are referring to added sugars in processed foods. Whether it's processed at home or in a factory, adding sugar to a foodstuff is the bad bit. Eating fresh fruit isn't an issue - it's when you do something to it (smoothies, for instance) or add extra sugar on top that it becomes a problem.

I like to keep things simple: "Eat food, not too much, mostly plants." (Micheal Pollan)

I also like the Japanese saying, “eight parts of a full stomach sustain the man; the other two sustain the doctor”, ie, don't eat until you're bursting. I tell my dc, "are you still hungry? No? Then you've likely had enough." (but I don't push the issue; they are growing like weeds after all and I don't actually know for sure when they are satisfied)

Food is complicated because we link it to our emotional state. I think that's inevitable, because it's been shown that hormones like oxytocin are released when we eat a meal with friends or family. Food is used for celebrations and mourning. Only seeing it as a food source or dividing it into "good" and "sinful" is far too black and white.

Having said that, I don't see processed sugar as a foodstuff, more of an additive or condiment. I don't go guzzling ketchup or pour it heavily on every meal I eat, so I don't do the same with sugar. It takes a fair amount of discipline, cooking from scratch, and knowledge of all the 70-odd names for processed sugar in order to eat this way, though, so I don't expect everyone to make the same choices.

Our health is certainly linked to what we eat. This winter, I've been under a back-breaking amount of stress and worry, while at the same time avoiding processed foods and added sugars like the plague. I haven't gotten ill AT ALL, and this is the first winter in many years that I could say that. Usually by February I am flat out with a d&v virus or a nasty cold. Nothing doing this time around. Do you think that's down to the foods I've been eating? Abso-friggin-lutely.

"Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food." (maybe Hippocrates said that, but who cares - it's a good quote)

I don't believe that it is an extreme view. One can purchase pre-prepared food for lunch and it not be something sitting in a plastic container prepared weeks ago. There are many good quality delis which prepare food on site which allow someone to have the convenience along with decent food. There are loads of cafes,coffee shops, and restaurants which do the same. It is simply a matter of choice.

My children have school dinners. I have tasted them, and they are fine -cooked on site, balanced, with a good choice.

Decent food is not impossible to prepare in half and hour or less - I do it quite often. It does take a bit of organization, but it is certainly not beyond a normal person's capability. I find it patronising to people to say that they would be incapable of feeding themselves and thus need to rely on convenience products.

If you want to hold manufacturers responsible, the way to do it is to buy from those who produce good quality food in a responsible manner - simple! What society needs to get away from is the simple, quick fix mentality and that includes diets, demonising foods, and blaming companies/individuals/politicians.

*fuel source

fouby agree with you on the mixed messages from different diets.

I think the industry does need to do more to cut sugar out of processed foods. I think people are naturally drawn to sweet and fatty foods.

That said I'm sure culture is important too. Dh works in a very European company. A lot of Germans come over here for a few years. He says most of them put on 1 to 2 stone within 2 years.

none of my teens are overweight at all. Despite my best efforts as teenagers they want healthy foods, gym membership, they did get perilously close to being over keen on energy drinks and macdonalds, as most 12 year olds. I dont think its the occasional foods, growing up my teens Would eat sausage and chips like ALL children, but the Extras, sweets, sedentary lifestyles, that cause the fat

my dc Always had squash but Now they actively prefer water.

Have to point out that it is type 2 diabetes that is linked to lifestyle. You think public perception of adults with diabetes is bad? Try having a child with type 1 diabetes- an autoimmune condition that has nothing to do with diet or lifestyle but it still tarred with the same "too many sweets" brush as type 2. It's really really hard having multiple injections and blood tests every day without having everyone judge you both as a druggie for injecting in a restaurant and assuming that it's self inflicted because your mother gave you a rubbish diet.

""There are a million households relying on food banks. Food banks prioritise high-carb items, in case you didn't know, because we now have folks who are starving. ""

People aren't starving, they just need to fill up on small quantity of food.

I wish people would stop going on about the sugar in fruit. If you cook with long established ingredients and move, its fine to eat fruit. I left weight watchers because we were being told to think carefully if we needed to eat a banana, even a grape, but a mini chocolate bar, or one of their bars, was ok with a cup of tea.

The arrears that have obesity/bad health patterns aren't suffering because of absolute poverty, or lack of facilities, it's entrenched eating patterns. I live in a 'deprived' bit of Liverpool, people are obese and morbidly obese and have health problems by the time they're 45, because of what they want to put into their bodies.

The sweet shops are full of a morning, or Home and Bargain is stocked up from and this constitutes their children's breakfast. These aren't Parents rushing to work.

The Chippies and Takeaways are the only businesses thriving in most run down areas.

I haven't been well, it's cost me a fortune to eat ready made meals/mash etc, I'm quite resentful over what I've had to spend on food.

I was Vegan, I've had to go Vegeterian, I'm still surprised by the amount of people whose reaction is, "how do you manage to cook every day", or I wouldn't know what to do with Lentils/Split,ChickPeas etc and yes, these people have unlimited internet, our libraries are still open, filled with cook books.

My advice to Mum's is to throw a Veg/Lentil stew into the weaning process, you never know when you'll hit hard times and you can eat nutritionally well, cheaply. The problem is eating patterns are set from birth.

""Have to point out that it is type 2 diabetes that is linked to lifestyle""

Yes, I know, that's why I didn't state 1 or 2, because it doesn't matter which one your collecting for (and the research isn't completely separate, anyway), people are still ridiculously ignorant.

I recommend reading Swallow This by Joanna Blythman - which is about the power and dodgy tactics of the food industry.

I have a BMI of about 40 or so (size 18-20).

I'm an educated and intelligent woman and fully aware of all of the health implications of my diet.

The factors that contribute to someone being obese are much more complex, and psychological, than education. I think that's a very simplistic and naive view and is why the government is failing to address obesity.

Unless you can address the underlying psychological reasons for your eating habits I don't believe more education works (believe me I know more than most!)

I agree with a lot of what mominatrix says. I was very guilty of buying the readily prepared fresh pastas, sauces, pre chopped veg etc etc etc. Because it was quicker easier, but I was still eating healthily.....

However I gained lots of weight, I now make my own meals, use dried pasta, make sauces fresh each day. I work full time. Very few of our meals take more than 30 mins to prepare and hour at the absolute most. Unless it's in the slow cooker. I have lost a considerable amount of weight. Obviously it's not just due to the making my own meals, but I do believe it's a large part of it. And honestly think it's easy for us to blame the food manufacturers, but we are the consumer, we make those choices.

I do believe more needs to be done to educate people how to cook. I am always surprised by how many people can't cook simply dishes. Or who think that they have to have prepared things to make meals quickly.

You can't make everything, we eat out regularly, but if the vast majority of your food is under your control, those extra meals out will not make a difference.... That's the moderation aspect of a healthy diet in my mind.

I pay half that for six apples in Waitrose or Sainsburys, £3.60 is ridiculous.

Time of glass - exactly that. You only have to look at how long it takes for the effects of poor choices to really show in your teeth or skin- often it's late 40s!

Annienomouse- I could give you an example of us not having time. 2 parents working FT, 2 nursery aged children. Children eat all meals at nursery. Adults- my DH is home at 7.30pm. He often hasn't eaten since 1pm. Even eating immediately will mean finishing around 8pm and also fitting in bed time story etc for the children somehow.

We use a variety of conveniences. Hello fresh box. Pre chopped veg. We use frozen a lot- a frozen salmon fillet in a steam bag with frozen veg rice and frozen mixed veg is a Monday staple. That's healthy, but quick and easy.

We could batch cook at the weekends, and sometimes I do. But more frequently, I like my precious weekends to be full of quality family time, not about drudge work.

I can cook. I'm a woman who for 10
Years got an organic veg box delivery and knocked the mud off her spuds before she could even wash them. But I don't have time, and when I do I want to use it elsewhere. I want supermarkets and food manufacturers to provide quick and easy food for me but it must also be quality and nutritious. How can that be too much to ask?

Gala apples are way too sweet. If you taste a traditional variety, like a Cox, you will notice immediately how much more tangy they are. Too much sugar in the newer varieties, apparently, because everything has to be sweet, sweet, sweet.

There is nothing wrong with bread. Apparently the Mediterranean and Japanese diets are ultra healthy. Neither of these particularly limit grains in moderation.

I can imagine that must be very challenging flossie.

This thread has hit a nerve with me. I have tried very hard to limit hidden sugar in my DCs diet, and DD was raised on old fashioned porridge for breakfast. Until she turned her nose up at it in the last year (she's now 4.5). Breakfasts are very hard. Egg and toast didn't last long. I can't find a cereal she likes that doesn't have sugar added - Wheatabix lasted a weeks before she refused that. Nor can I find sugar free yoghurt?! She currently has Greek yoghurt with a squirt of baby fruit puree on top (because she won't eat it plain). She'll eat toast and honey or toast and jam - but that's sweet and sugary. I don't know why her tastes have shifted when she's never been given sugar before, but I wonder if it coincided with going to nursery. It's a nightmare. Every breakfast is a struggle.

It gives me the rage reading threads like this. Every generation has those who enjoy sitting in moral judgement over others and criticising their choices while at the same time using that criticism to reflect back positively on their own virtue. Normally those criticised are generally lower on the socio-economic ladder and there's a healthy dose of snobbery chucked in there too.

In previous generations this might have been aimed at unmarried mothers or people who ate meat on Fridays or fat in lent or 'filth' on the TV. Today it's aimed at anybody who isn't a size ten or doesn't eat spiralized courgette for dinner or mashed avocado for breakfast with a healthy side of penance and self denial.

It's the enjoyment of working up into a moral panic whilst simultaneously declaring the virtue of ones own lifestyle choices. Rage, I tell you, gives me the rage.

i know what you mean Billsykesdog