To ask if you've all heard about TTIP?

[GooseberryRoolz]

www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-is-ttip-and-six-reasons-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html

Me. I've been trying to raise awareness about this for a couple of years.

It's had a sudden rush of interest because Brexiters think they can use it to support their case.

Sadly, as pointed out on the other thread about this, it's not a case of Vote Brexit, avoid TTIP.

It's more like, Vote Brexit, lose bargaining power and be left facing US trade demands alone.

The whole reason TTIP hasn't been signed yet after 2 years of negotiation is that for once the US is having to negotiate with an economic bloc large enough to say no to things. Their normal method is to fax a country their terms and conditions and tell them to sign.

Ice, our influence at the EU table is negligible.

Here's an article saying don't think you can avoid TTIP through Brexit www.independent.co.uk/voices/no-we-cant-protect-ourselves-from-ttip-by-leaving-europe-heres-why-a6853876.html

250,000 demonstrated against it in Germany last year: gu.com/p/4d78c?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Articles here:
No, we can't protect ourselves from TTIP by leaving Europe. Here's why

and here:
Will TTIP Get Terminated? Negotiations Falter as Europe Balks
"Concern over the impact of TTIP has united disparate groups," he wrote, "from French farmers to German constitutional lawyers and politicians on the left and right."...
"Opposition to TTIP is particularly intense in Germany, where only 39 percent of the population backs the trade deal."

It's disingenuous and incorrect to say brexiters are using it to further their cause. The referendum has, however, brought it to the attention of many people who, like me, hadn't heard of it until recently. Perhaps because the powers that be want it kept quiet as it is such a bad deal?

Cameron, meanwhile, thinks such an agreement is a jolly good thing:
G20 summit: Cameron promises to fire 'rocket boosters' under controversial EU-US TTIP trade deal

So make up your own mind what sort of deal he would sign with the US for a post-Brexit UK.

It's disingenuous and incorrect to say brexiters are using it to further their cause.

I'm not sure what you mean: there are Brexiters on MN doing exactly this.

I didn't say it was a bad thing that people are now more aware - I'm glad they are.

But for the reasons explained above, I don't think Brexit will solve the issues underlying TTIP.

It hasn't been kept quiet, either. The broadsheets and BBC have covered TTIP in some detail over the years. But I can understand people not picking up the significance.

Discussion of the more damaging provisions, the Investor-to-State Dispute Settlement structure has now been suspended: TTIP: Activists triumph as contentious US free trade deal clause suspended.

Parliamentary debate in January 2015: 'That this House believes that the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership and any associated investor-state dispute settlement provisions should be subject to scrutiny in the European Parliament and the UK Parliament.'

Sorry, info deluge really not helping you sex up TTIP, Gooseberry.

I know quite a bit about TTIP and it will have a huge impact. As others say it's come to the fore because of the possible Brexit.

There was a furore in Australia because of the equivalent trade pact there - the TPP agreement. Through strong advocacy some compromises were struck but it has to be said that the final agreement definitely favoured the US.

I think I can now see why big business, the US President, the EU , the IMF and so on are so keen to push the idea of the UK staying in the EU.

If the 5th largest economy in the World (i.e the UK) leaves the EU then that is a big market opportunity that US companies will not be able to exploit under TTIP. The UK would be the first market that US companies would enter under TTIP because the language barrier is nil and the UK is a big market. They would gain experience here and then bridgehead into Europe.

Australia is the classic case of an ISDS because of Philip Morris vs. Australia

US tobacco company Philip Morris took the Australian government to court for passing a law making tobacco packaging plain. It did so by claiming to be a Hong Kong company and jockeying an elderly trade agreement between Australia and HK.

Australia won after four years of legal battle, but it cost around $50m in legal costs.

New Zealand gave up on passing a tobacco packaging law, for fear of being on the receiving end of similar.

I think Philip Morris vs Uruguay is still ongoing.

I'm not convinced about their point re it signalling the NHS being privatised. That's happening right now as we speak. More and more contracts are being leased to private companies, not just internal services but ones that affect patients too. Theres a trust in England that privatised patient ambulances (pickups for appointments, dialysis/cancer treatments etc) which has been an absolute disaster - dialysis patients not getting picked up for vital appointments etc.

It's been said by someone whose name escapes me that one of the first signals of privatisation is removing the funding for the service so it doesn't run efficiently, therefore presenting itself as a case for privatisation. Sounds eerily similar to what's happening to the NHS just now...

Well indeed.

The bill to privatise the NHS was passed in 2012 by the Conservative-Liberal coalition: Health and Social Care Act 2012

A lot of the Conservative MPs who voted for privatising the NHS are pro-Brexit.

And a lot Bremain.

I haven't seen anything to suggest tender concern for the NHS is an influence for them either way.

Marking place to read links later.

I knew about ttip, I I knew Cameron was for it and the reason it is taking so long with the EU is because they don't agree with loads of it? Whereas Cameron would sign it as it is.

Agreed PartyRat.

Regarding TTIP, I've been signing online petitions about it for months. Fat lot of good it does.

Can you link to any, petty woman?

Yes, I've been signing petitions protesting about it for months too.

Saw it on FB recently. Very scary. I'm sure,if we left the EU we'd still end up signing it. At least if we're in the EU we're part of a bigger bloc we can moderate it a bit. That's one of the main reasons I'm voting stay

I'll be reading for a month.

How can anyone be sure what the interaction with Brexit would be?

Yes, but I'm quite political