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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

DD3 (9) having no lunch time play for 6 weeks

210 replies

StarOnTheTree · 12/04/2016 17:41

DD3 was really upset after school because every lunch time for the next 6 weeks half of the year 4s have to do jobs on a lunch time, generally looking after the younger kids, cleaning tables, etc. Her job is to get the equipment out in the playground and play with the little kids. She doesn't want to, she just wants to play with her own friends.

I spoke to the teacher who said that they HAVE to do these jobs and if they don't like what they're doing they can swap if another child agrees. Next half term the other half of year 4 will do it instead and then they'll carry on like this in year 5.

If it was just one day a week I wouldn't have a problem with it but every day other than eating lunch DD3 has to 'work'. AIBU to think that this is totally out of order?

OP posts:
WaspsandBeesSting · 13/04/2016 18:40

IMO There's a couple of boys in DD3's class that should not ever be taking younger DC to the toilet or ever be alone with a small child

What does that mean Hmm

LindyHemming · 13/04/2016 18:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Janecc · 13/04/2016 18:45

Have you looked into getting signed off by a doctor?!!! It costs £25.

Mistigri · 13/04/2016 18:47

The thing is OP that just chatting to the school teacher at kicking out time isn't going to get any results.

If you want to get arsey (and it sounds like you probably should) then do it in writing and in a way they can't ignore ie raising specific concerns about supervision and risk assessment.

StarOnTheTree · 13/04/2016 18:50

Janecc Thanks for all your advice. I'll definitely ask about POTS at DD3's next appointment.

OP posts:
Smartiepants79 · 13/04/2016 18:54

The health issues are a bit of a separate issue that needs resolving so your DD can do the stuff she's capable of.
I suppose our yr 5/6 have 'mandatory jobs' but it boils down to maybe 20 minutes of their lunch time once a week.
Anything more than once a week is not right.
Don't think they should be responsible for external gates either that's a safe guarding issue. Only adults should be opening and closing external exits.
I think responsible jobs for older children is a good thing but this is all a bit badly thought through.

StarOnTheTree · 13/04/2016 18:55

Wasp There was a boy in DD3's class who left the school recently because another boy in the class, along with his brother a year older, threw him to the ground and beat the shit out of him. And another boy in the class who talks very inappropriately. God knows what stuff he has access to at home for him to have knowledge like that!

OP posts:
Beeziekn33ze · 13/04/2016 19:02

Is there a parents' association, it sounds as if one is needed. The school, or its lunchtime requirements, sounds very regimented. How long has this been going on?
Where are the playground supervisors? There is no way a Y4 child should be responsible for the locking of an external gate.
I almost find myself wondering what part of the world you are in.

StarOnTheTree · 13/04/2016 19:09

I presume there are lunchtime supervisors around

OP posts:
Janecc · 13/04/2016 19:42

Good great but don't be surprised if they look at you and say what's POTS. Health is so compartmentalised - rheumatology doesn't talk to cardiology, neurology etc. Sorry you're going through so much stress.

ShutUpLegs · 13/04/2016 19:54

DC1 (in yr 5) has a similar-ish "job" - goes to play with the KS1 kids - organise games with them etc.. SHe isn't responsible for equipment or gates - just to keep an eye out for excluded kids and create games that help scaffold inclusive play.

She does it for three days a week and she requested it as she was having issues with her own peer group and just wanted some time out of the KS2 playground.

I am supportive of it as it is her idea and she loves the role. I would be a bit more concerned about it being mandatory.

lalalalyra · 13/04/2016 19:54

Have they explained why it's compulsory? In some schools I've worked in it was compulsory for a few weeks so that the children who didn't choose to be monitors in the following year couldn't get their parents to complain about missing out on a permanent choice by saying they didn't know what it entailed.

For some children monitoring like this is brilliant. My DD1 was an infant monitor in her second last year of primary. Every break and lunchtime. She adored it. She found sitting about the playground boring, but she and her friends thought themselves too cool for daft games - playing/organising games with the younger kids was a whole different story. She thrived on that job and it did her confidence the world of good. She was gutted that they didn't do in the last year (her HT felt that too many of the eldest year group tended to get too big for their boots and bossy for it to work. Plus they had other pressurss to focus on).

I don't think one week of break time is that bad, but it does sound badly organised. I think bigger kids helping out the smaller kids in stints through the year does them the world of good.

Although I am glad it has changed since I was at school. I can only imagine the horror now - I was a junior cloakroom monitor. As the most responsible (as responsible as 11yos get!) my main job was donning plastic gloves, some cotton wool and the bottle of detail to clean the inevitable grazed knees. The janitor used to wander through the playground every now and again, but most of his time was spent sorting problems on the football pitch. In some ways scary to think about the day a small one climbed on a trellis and fell off. Two of us were in charge of his first aid til someone else ran for adult help. Although our HT made no bones about picking people for jobs. No 'everybody has a chance' like you get now.

TheSultanofPingu · 13/04/2016 20:20

The playground supervisors will still be there Beezie.
I would be very surprised if they weren't keeping a close eye on things.

grapejuicerocks · 13/04/2016 20:50

I would put it in writing and I would ask for a written response. Once they know there is a paper trail they think more carefully about what they are saying.

Fyaral · 13/04/2016 21:09

This is totally unacceptable. Complain to the HT in person and with a copy in writing. Unfortunately you often have to make yourself a massive pita to a school before they will do something. I have told parents in the past exactly who to annoy and how persistent they have to be at my school. It was in the childs best interest and it did happen eventually once slt got sick of being badgered.

grapejuicerocks · 13/04/2016 21:35

I achieved something no other parent had ever done before because I calmly stated my case in writing and asked for a written response. Because I was measured and stated facts, keeping emotions out of it, the HT respected my thoughts. He knew I was serious and wasnt making a noise about nothing. In fact he was very chummy with me for the rest of the time we were there.

zipzap · 13/04/2016 23:12

I'd say that before you give permission for your dd to take part in these tasks, you need to see the risk assessment that has been done for each of the tasks for a 'typical' student and the ones that have been done for your child in light of her medical issues that reduce her ability to do certain things. And that you need to see both so that you can see what additional adjustments have been made for your child over and above the rest of the class. And that due to the special medical needs your dd has, and how the teacher has already demonstrated to you when discussing this that she has not understood your dd's needs, you consider it a safeguarding issue that they are ignoring the welfare of your dd if they make her do these things - and that you will take the issue further if they continue to make her do these tasks without providing the requested risk assessments (because although other tasks may be more suited to her needs why should you take their word for it without them providing any proof, when they've been dismissing your concerns despite you knowing it is an issue).

Obviously if you phrase it correctly it will sound like you are willing to let her do the tasks once you have seen the risk assessments - and the sooner the school provides the risk assessments then you'll be able to check that they have done them correctly for your dd, so until that point it is the school that is causing the hold up rather than you.

I'm hoping that the school has at least done risk assessments for the general pupils rather than the special cases. Obviously I'm hoping that they have also done them for pupils with specific needs that could be impacted by these tasks. If they haven't done them then with it being SATS time of year they may well not want the bother of doing them and delay so your dd gets away with not doing anything. If they haven't done them then I'd be kicking up merry hell too as WTF are they doing something like this without doing them?!?

It sounds like the teacher has no understanding of your dd's condition and its effects - not to mention the long term implications of doing things that she shouldn't do. So it sounds like any risk assessment they have done for her will need you to improve it quite considerably... Which is your chance to both educate the teachers about your dd's problems and to show how it is completely inappropriate for her to be doing the task she was originally set to do for 6 weeks (and any others if that's the case).

Sorry if I sound a bit strident. I have a friend who has EDS (a severe form of hypermobility) who has ended up in a wheelchair as when she was at school she didn't know she had the condition, and sports teachers just thought she was being lazy or not trying hard enough so made her do lots of stuff that would have been fine if she had not had EDS but caused her condition to get a lot more severe a lot more quickly than it should have done. So whereas she should have been doing very gentle exercise - walking, swimming, nothing extreme - instead she had to take part in everything, and suffered a lot of pain at the time as well as the long term ramifications of ending up in a wheelchair. And as she didn't know any better, and because she'd always had pains and assumed it was normal, and thought that everyone else felt the same pains she did, she ended up doing what she was told.

Her dc have also got EDS - however they are 'lucky' in so far as it was identified very early on, their mum knows exactly how to treat them and how far to push them or not, and so on. The school is involved and knows - the sports staff know that they are not being lazy when they don't take part in everything or just do what they can, the matron knows their daily physio routine and helps them daily, their teachers don't expect them to do things they shouldn't - so instead of stacking chairs they might put out the pen pots for example, or if they go on a school trip they'll ensure they don't have to carry their lunch with them all morning or that if there's lots of walking they check they're ok or if they need a rest. It's not made into a big deal - but it's certainly something that is taken very seriously.

And that's the way it should be for your dd too.

I hope you manage to sort everything out and find a compromise that you're happy with and why on earth they are doing this in the first place - bet it's to save money as others have said.

oh and remember to include in your risk assessment things like the fact that your dd won't want to say no to a teacher so will do something even if she is in pain and then tell you about it later, so that relying on your dd to tell the teacher that she can't or shouldn't do something is not possible as she's too intimidated to tell the teacher how she really feels. And remember to include the cumulative damage worry - particularly to her wrists - which if she stresses early could lead to significant problems later in life - which in this day and age could be really significant because wrist problems often lead to problems with things like typing and writing which will be real problems when she is taking exams or when she wants to work write long MN posts! but can't type for as long as she needs to.

Sorry, I'll shut up now! Just good luck with getting it all sorted.

StarOnTheTree · 14/04/2016 06:32

zipzap Your poor friend :(

Thanks for the advice. That was a really useful post and quite shocking that doing the wrong tasks now can have such an impact on health later on Shock

And it's not just DD3's wrists that are bad, it's practically her whole body. I just used the wrist example because of the job that she has to do now.

I'm going to start drafting an email with the intention of getting it to the HT by the end of the day.

OP posts:
Baressentials · 14/04/2016 06:53

At dd's school they have a lunchtime buddy system where they have to help the younger dc with their lunch, help tidy after lunch and be nearby at playtime. It is once a week, all school year and is on a rota system. I am fully supportive of this and although dd sometimes moans (it means she doesn't get as long to eat her own lunch) she always comes home saying how much she has enjoyed it.

But a 6 week block? Everyday? I think that is overkill. Even without your dds health issues on top.

Good luck with the email. Flowers

SexLubeAndAFishSlice · 14/04/2016 07:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Janecc · 14/04/2016 07:58

I've just re read your response to me and the long post by zipzap. So sad zipzap poor child.
I wasn't hassling you about the POTS thing, I was meaning for you to go to see your GP now as in today/tomorrow and get a doctors note excluding her from these activities.

bakeoffcake · 14/04/2016 08:16

I wonder if the HT actually knows this is happening. It sounds such an incredibly stupid thing to come up with.

Along with the Teachers total disregard for your DD's health the fact DD will be responsible for locked gates is absolutely against all safety guidelines!! I would refuse permission for my child to be unlocking and locking gates which, if left unlocked could lead up a child escaping. I'd go straight to the head and would be asking her what she thinks Ofstead would think of it!

StarOnTheTree · 14/04/2016 08:21

Janecc Any knowledge that I have to help DD3 with her health issues is really valuable so I really appreciate your help. But even without her health issues I'm not happy for her to be doing this so first I'm going to say that I give permission for her to do a 15 minute job once a week or 1-2 lunchtimes per term. Then I'll make it clear that they need to consider DD3's health issues, not only in relation to the lunchtime jobs but with every activity in school.

Their teacher's attitude towards DD3's health issues is shocking. I think that because DD3 doesn't complain, she doesn't look ill and she runs around the playground they don't see that she has any problems at all with her health.

OP posts:
Janecc · 14/04/2016 08:33

I know I fully understand as my health issues are invisible. That's why I really think you should consider getting your gp to write a letter to the school. < hugs >

zipzap · 15/04/2016 00:39

Glad to have been a little use Star - I've only got to know these things through my friend and having seen the battles that she's fought so it's good that the knowledge could help others!

My friend has found the EDS Society very helpful (I can't remember if that's its exact name but if you google it, it's obvious!) in providing info and support, and there's also one that deals with lots of hypermobility issues, including being hypermobile and EDS. They both have websites with loads of info, including stuff to show to schools, and helplines that can provide further advice.

If you don't mind me asking, has your dd got a 'definitive' diagnosis of hypermobility - have you come across EDS (which is a syndrome with several different types) as a possible diagnosis? It's a rhetoric question (not expecting you to discuss your dd on a public forum!), just checking that it is something that has been investigated and definitely discounted, particularly as one of your later posts said your dd suffered across her whole body Sad. (and please forgive me if I'm telling you stuff that you already know, but figure it's better to hear it twice than not at all as you say you're still finding it useful to find out new info about your dd's condition).

It's just again, having heard from my friend's experiences and knowing the battles she has had - she often finds that she knows more about her condition than the doctors she encounters. She's lucky that she and her dc have now got a great consultant who does know what's what. But that's taken years!

And there are still some doctors and other consultants that 'don't believe it' or think that being hypermobile just means that you're double jointed and a bit bendier than usual, without realising how it can be so much more than that for some people. A bit like hearing somebody cough and assuming that it is just a mild cough when it could be something really serious like TB or lung disease or pneumonia.

Flowers and Wine and Chocolate for you to help you deal with all this

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