To expect an apology?

[Libertymae]

On holiday with DH's siblings and their children in a five bed house owned by my PIL. There are 20 of us in total - 'children' range in age from 8 to 25. First time PIL not been here (due to illness) to keep everyone in check.

DH and I sharing bedroom with 2 DSs. Little one wakes at 2am and asks me to take him to the loo. When I get up, I notice the light is on in the room my DD (age 13) is supposed to be sharing with her cousin (age 16). I look in, there is a third cousin there (age 17) and a boy on a mattress on the floor that I have never seen before, chatting. My DD is awake looking bewildered.

Turns out the two cousins (siblings) have been out to the pub and the boy is a friend from home. I say I'm not very happy about DD being woken up, or by the fact there is someone we don't know now sleeping in her room. Go back to my DH, who storms into their room, takes DD's mattress off her bed and puts it in the room we are sleeping in. He gives the cousins a piece of his mind re: thoughtlessness, DD 13, should be asleep at 2am etc. IMHO, it was moderate given the time and situation but there was some swearing. All over in less than 30 seconds.

This morning, I had (naively?) assumed there would be an apology from cousins, their parents would be a bit cross with them, and that it would all blow over.

Instead, it turns out 16 year old cousin left the house and walked a mile to his friend's house where he ended up sleeping. His parents realised he wasn't in the house at about 4am, and are furious with us for apparently intimating that friend was a rapist, and having such a go at the boys that they felt he couldn't sleep here. No mention of unreasonableness of waking a 13 yo at 2am. (BTW - Never any suggestion that friend was anything other than someone we didn't know. I did ask why they weren't sleeping in a different room, with older cousins who had also been out.)

I'm pretty gobsmacked that they think their DC's behaviour was even remotely ok! AIBU?

I think your husband handled it badly too.
He stormed into the room, got your daughter out of bed. Then removed the mattress, unless it was a super thin one they are usually quite bulky, told the boys off and took the mattress to your room. All in 30 seconds. If the boy has usually shared with your daughter. He most prob didn't think he was doing anything wrong. I don't think it's normal for teenagers to worry their friends are rapists.

Cousin is a ridiculous drama queen!

Op's daughter had been moved from the room, the "bollocking" had been given, so what was the point of leaving?

To make it all about them so that their being inconsiderate to Op's daughter would be forgotten?

diddl I suspect you are right.

To my knowledge, DH didn't say anyone shouldn't be there. Definitely didn't say (or mean) that anyone was a potential threat/possible rapist. He certainly told them off for being thoughtless and waking DD at 2am.

In fact it was me who said I wasn't happy about a stranger in my DDs room.
When I first went in (please remember I was only up because my little DS needed a wee!), I said, 'What's going on? What are the lights doing on?' then 'Who are you?' and then, 'I'm not very happy about DD sleeping in room with someone neither she nor I knows.' Which I'm not. That's why we moved her. So there was no need for anyone to leave the house, as they had the room to themselves by then.

No-one has locks on the doors, and yes, I'd say things were reasonably relaxed as we all take the approach that we need to make compromises when so many people are in one place. It's DH's family and the kids all love spending time together so mostly we all try and put up with everyone else being as mad as boxes of frogs :)

Hmm, I'm thinking now though, if you went in & asked what was happening, why did yourhusband then need to go in?

Could you not just have asked your daughter what she wanted to do?

She might have found it fun to sit up chatting, or might have felt uncomfortable.

i think dh reacted a bit strongly, forcefully moving daughter and mattress, and I can understand why older teenage cousin and friend were upset.

Tbh if i was you I would have dealt with it myself and not involved your dh, it could put your dd off ever telling you anything in the future. She is 13, she isn't a baby.

" She is 13, she isn't a baby."

Well indeed, there was nothing to stop her going to Op to tell her that she wasn't happy/they wouldn't shut up & let her sleep...

Personally wouldn't mix opposite sexes at that age. Horny 16yo's. Hmmmm...I haven't personally been abused, but know enough friends who have by members of their own families, to not want to put my children into a position like that.

The cousins sharing thing isn't a problem, the randoms in the room is.

Not sure who is unreasonable tbh. Can you recall exactly what DH said? Cousins definitely shouldn't have brought someone back with them (shouldn't have been allowed to the pub at all actually), but your DH swearing isn't wonderful.

Any moderately informed person aware of the statistics would know that the COUSIN SHARING THING IS DEFINITELY A PROBLEM.

There's no excuse for naivete in this day and age.

gonetoseeamanaboutadog - can you quote your sources for those statistics please? I'd be really interested to know what those rates are.

Wtf gonetoseeamanaboutadog? Have I missed a pisstaking page or something?

What statistics?

Quite frankly, I can't face googling it in depth again at this time.

If you do a search for 'statistics for cousin abuse' you will find that figures for abuse by an extended family member is as high as 30-40% and older siblings/cousins are part of that.

OP, don't back down. Don't be swayed by rhetoric about rapists. These are principles for your DD's safety that it's vital you model to her. Doesn't matter who she's sharing with - friend, stranger or extended family member.

• She doesn't go to sleep unless she's sure that she knows who else will be sleeping in the room that night (i.e. has received assurances from people she trusts). At her age, that should have been you.
• She doesn't share a room with any male of her age or older, regardless of who they are. Immediate family members are down to your discretion; extended family members aren't - you can't know them well enough to make a decision.

If you were to start a thread inquiring about sexual abuse, you would soon find out what you're protecting her from. She needs to know exactly where the boundaries are because as safe as she seems to you tonight, there will come a day when she will only be safe if she's putting these principles into practice. This is your opportunity to ingrain them in her mind - and ensure she isn't one of the many children in the UK this year who will suffer abuse at the hands of an under age, extended family member. (I'm sure the parents of these abusers would be highly indignant at the idea their children are capable of anything untoward).

gonetoseeamanaboutadog - I googled and you have been very misleading. That 30-40% theory is not referring to % of cousins who abuse, it's % of existing abuse that is by a larger/older child (not specifically cousins). Scaremongering the OP is not helpful and neither is giving misleading stats.

Of course most victims of abuse are abused by a family member. That's very commonly known. It Doesn't mean all family members abuse! If you're going to live like that you wouldn't be able to leave your children alone with their father either, he is most likely to rape them.

Storm in a teacup all round. Really not seeing the issue with a 13yr old being woken up at 2am, at that age they should be capable of either going back to sleep or going to find a parent if it really bothers them. Rather than the humiliation of pfb parent barging in and ranting and raving.

From a parental perspective I can see why you were uncomfortable with an unknown older boy sleeping in the room, however I don't personally work from the assumption all boys are sex pests. More the privacy issue, which if she's already sharing with a male cousin is irrelevant. But either way it's unlikely a 16yr old would think as your dh did, 'hang on, my mate might be a peado sex pest, so best not let them in the room'.

Yes, teen lad childish to stomp off, but being 16 is more understandable than your dps behavior.

I don't think it's healthy really for teens of opposite access to be sharing rooms. I think it just really blurs boundaries for them, not that all boys are sex pests, but it's a lot clearer for all concerned what isn't acceptable. And of course not all cousins will abuse each other, but neither do all car journeys end up in crash. The point is you wear seatbelts in case, so opposite sex family (even siblings) shouldn't be sleeping in same room in my book.

(obviously past a certain age, certainly by teen years)

No, it was not my intention to be misleading but to highlight to the OP that unfortunately, abuse by extended family members, even those under the age of 16, does happen and is not something she should discount as not worth worrying about.

It is far from unheard of and unfortunately, the reason why we have had the opportunity to compile statistics about it is because it does happen, probably to families who thought it would never happen. Because who looks at anyone and thinks 'there's a potential abuser', especially in the family? Yet it's highly likely that if you are abused, it will be a 'surprising' case like this.

It's a relatively small thing to enforce principles to ensure your own child isn't one of these statistics and it's important for children to see parents modeling this awareness. There was a thread on here about abuse a while ago and many, many personal accounts began with a sleepover involving teens, often younger teens who older friends and family members then had access to add they slept.

And yes, it could of course be a parent who is doing the abusing, and that is a difficult if not impossible situation to prevent. However, that is no excuse for not protecting the child from risk involving others, unless you're looking for justification to simply not bother.

One thing I would say is that I know my husband well; although I can never know another person's potential to abuse completely, I have much more information about it and about character than I do about the private thoughts of teenage nephews.

To my knowledge, DH didn't say anyone shouldn't be there. Definitely didn't say (or mean) that anyone was a potential threat/possible rapist. He certainly told them off for being thoughtless and waking DD at 2am

Ah come off it! If you (a complete stranger) say to a 16 year old "who are you, what are you doing here, this is inappropriate, you've woken up so and so" all with added swearing, storming about, and removing of mattresses...what do you expect them to think? They are still childlike in their thinking, they are not adults, their brains have a lot of forming still to finish. That boy heard: you shouldn't be here, you are not welcome, we do not want you here and you are a danger to our daughter, we are removing her and her bed away from you.
It's not at all surprising he thought the right thing to do would be to leave. I'd do much the same at 3 times his age!

Perhaps it will be a valuable learning experience not to bunk down somewhere that the hosts don't know he's staying Sylvia.

I don't think some of you have even met any teenagers, let alone attempt to understand them at all. No wonder they are all so depressed when people are so fucking hard on them.
Try taking the rods out of your arses and try and remember what it was like to be a teen?