To expect an apology?

[Libertymae]

On holiday with DH's siblings and their children in a five bed house owned by my PIL. There are 20 of us in total - 'children' range in age from 8 to 25. First time PIL not been here (due to illness) to keep everyone in check.

DH and I sharing bedroom with 2 DSs. Little one wakes at 2am and asks me to take him to the loo. When I get up, I notice the light is on in the room my DD (age 13) is supposed to be sharing with her cousin (age 16). I look in, there is a third cousin there (age 17) and a boy on a mattress on the floor that I have never seen before, chatting. My DD is awake looking bewildered.

Turns out the two cousins (siblings) have been out to the pub and the boy is a friend from home. I say I'm not very happy about DD being woken up, or by the fact there is someone we don't know now sleeping in her room. Go back to my DH, who storms into their room, takes DD's mattress off her bed and puts it in the room we are sleeping in. He gives the cousins a piece of his mind re: thoughtlessness, DD 13, should be asleep at 2am etc. IMHO, it was moderate given the time and situation but there was some swearing. All over in less than 30 seconds.

This morning, I had (naively?) assumed there would be an apology from cousins, their parents would be a bit cross with them, and that it would all blow over.

Instead, it turns out 16 year old cousin left the house and walked a mile to his friend's house where he ended up sleeping. His parents realised he wasn't in the house at about 4am, and are furious with us for apparently intimating that friend was a rapist, and having such a go at the boys that they felt he couldn't sleep here. No mention of unreasonableness of waking a 13 yo at 2am. (BTW - Never any suggestion that friend was anything other than someone we didn't know. I did ask why they weren't sleeping in a different room, with older cousins who had also been out.)

I'm pretty gobsmacked that they think their DC's behaviour was even remotely ok! AIBU?

Sounds like the H went a bit over the top if he scared a 16 year old boy out of the house. But you and him sound a bit pfb anyway - your DD is 13, not 3. A late night chatting with her cousins won't kill her, and she might actually have been enjoying herself and embarrased by having her dad come in and have a big tantrum which made her look like a baby in front of her cousins.

16 yo is a boy, 17 yo is a girl. Some nights they go out to pub, some nights they don't. The previous night when they went out, they slept in a different room (which is where it would have made sense for them to sleep last night).

When I say 'keeping in check', PIL have very particular way of doing things - probably because there are so many of us in the family - and as it's their house, we all respect those rules. There is a routine and we all keep to it. Without the PIL here, it's very different. No way would this have happened if PIL were here.

They should apologise. Having said which, 16/17 is a strsange time for boys - you view yourself as you've always done (ie basically a child, with priviledges) and then you realise the rest of the world views you as a threat potential predator.

The teenager who left the house in the middle of the night - why didn't they just tell their parents there was a problem? Why up the drama and go wandering about the countryside in the wee small hours?

I'm having serious difficulty in believing that the 16 year old really walked to the friend's house without bothering to let his parents know just because he was offended by what your DH said and because he had a go at them for waking your DD. With 20 people in the house including his parents, he blatantly can't have felt unsafe. I suspect that the reality was that maybe they did feel a bit guilty, they had an adolescent strop and the friend decided to go back and persuaded the 16 year old to go with him. His parents need to tell him to grow up and apologise.

Sleeping arrangements are far from ideal this time around - long story but DD was supposed to be sharing with her auntie. Up until this holiday, she has shared with this (male) cousin and his sister.

We had no way of knowing 16 yo would be allowed to go out to pub until all hours - this has not been the case before.

No idea why he didn't wake his own parents, presumably as he knew they'd be in trouble??

I totally take the point of DH behaving differently and much more calmly but it was 2am - hindsight is a wonderful thing! There was no suggestion of asking anyone to leave the house; DH moved our DD so they didn't have to go anywhere. Also, he only spoke to the boys for 30 secs max. DH could not have foreseen that they would leave the house.

Giggling at the pfb comment! Maybe you're right :) I think part of it was that it was the middle of the night and all so unexpected.

Even if the cousin she was already sharing with had been a boy, it does not take a vast amount of imagination to work out that a young teenage girl might feel ok sharing with a relative, whom she presumably knew well, but self conscious and uncomfortable about sharing with a strange boy several years older. I don't think either of my teenagers would have had a problem grasping that one.

I think you are both in the wrong but I think the friend being over is completely normal from wayward teenagers- in fact I knew what you were going to write before I even read it. I wouldn't have cared about a younger cousin at 16 either tbh. Teenagers are selfish. It's just the way they are.

I don't think I agree with the argument that teenagers can't be expected to think sensibly or with consideration for others - I remember being 17, I would never have brought a boy into a room where my little cousin was sleeping.

Quite frankly if the 16 yo is adult enough to be allowed to go drinking in a pub then he should be adult enough to handle his Uncle's reasonable anger about a strange boy in his daughter's room at 2am.

The OP's DH isn't responsible for the 16yo boys choosing to leave the house.

They are either mature enough to be treated as adults or not. They can't have it both ways.

Drunk teenagers, shouty dads, midnight flounces. It all sounds very familiar from when we had get togethers with my cousins.

I'd leave it. Alcohol changes things. Drunk teenagers don't have a lot of common sense.

It was just a situation that got out of hand. No one got hurt. You'll know better next time to put your daughter in with someone younger. Until she's the one getting drunk and flouncing off

I wouldn't expect my 16 yr old to walk out in the early hours because an adult family member had pointed out he was being a thoughtless twat tbh.

This. I have no sympathy for the oh so poor 16-year old who was hurt because her uncle found out that his younger daughter was woken up by her drunk cousin bringing an unknown boy (to her) into her room. I'd be furious myself and I wouldn't have problem telling the niece what I thought about it. The "shouty Dad" was only protecting his daughter which is easy to understand.

Never posted on AIBU before, and I must say it is very cathartic. Thanks everyone! Have suggested we have a bit of a family meeting on it so we can re-think sleeping arrangements and anyone who needs to can apologise.

I think the boy who walked off was very stroppy and your DH's actions were entirely understandable. If he is this thoughtless and stroppy he has probably blown up what was said by your DH wildly.

The boys should have known it was wrong to bring a random home without permission, especially given the sleeping arrangements. It was an abuse of trust. The cousin's parents are self-centered if they cannot see this put your DD in a vulnerable position, which is a very serious matter.

It was very foolish of you to allow your teenage DD to share a room with cousins of the opposite sex.

It is a bit rich for them to be making a fuss about the whereabouts of the 16 year old when they allowed him to go to the pub a few hours previously.

YANBU to expect an apology but it doesn't sound like it will be forthcoming.

They are either mature enough to be treated as adults or not. They can't have it both ways

Of course they can, because they are 16. They are nearly adults, but still children in other ways.
Teenagers are dickheads, because they are teenagers. What is the OP's husbands excuse for acting like a knob?

Gonetoseeamanaboutadog "It was very foolish of you to allow your teenage DD to share a room with cousins of the opposite sex."

I'm really interested to know if this is this a common consensus? Sleeping arrangements here are a real bone of contention and it is really hard to organise things so everyone is happy. Being part of such a big family and trying to spend time all together obviously requires compromises to be made.

Previous to this, I had no more issue allowing my DD to sleep in a room with this particular male cousin than I would about her sharing a room with her brother. However, no matter which way I look at it, I really do have issues with random boys in her room in the middle of the night, which she hasn't been given the option of consenting to.

BTW, she is very upset today and feels it is her fault that such a fuss has been made.

SylviaWrath - while I accept, in the cold light of day, DH would have been better to approach the situation more calmly, I can't agree with you that 30 secs of telling a couple of teenagers off at 2am when he has only got his DD's safety at heart is exactly behaving 'like a knob'! He didn't order them out, nor could he have foreseen that they'd leave the house.

Is have been angry at the stranger in bedrooms, not just the 2am issue. I think if similar had happened surely the most logical thing for the older cousins to do is take the friend to the living room area? A bedroom seems an odd place to suddenly decide to change the sleeping arrangements?

In a nutshell: yes, you should expect an apology. But you should also give one.
And yes I do think you could have anticipated they would leave the house, at least the friend. They were invited back, then all of a sudden a complete stranger is storming about and swearing and saying they shouldn't be there. At their age I would have left too, I would have been far too embarrassed to stay when I was being told I wasn't welcome there.

Liberty i am surprised by people saying it's inappropriate for your daughter to share with her older male cousin. To me it would depend on how close they have been growing up - have they been like brother and sister or are they virtual strangers who happen to see each other a couple of times a year? The later I could see your daughter feeling unhappy with the situation but the former I wouldn't see as inappropriate.

I could be wrong though - I don't have teenagers!

this is a really tough one

I realise you may not like this comment but here goes....given a) what teens are like anyway in terms of not worrying about this stuff and b) the sleeping arrangements are such that it sounds very relaxed, I can imagine they didn't think for a minute that it would be a problem.

to that end, I can see why the 16 year old boy is upset.

I'm not sure how many adults and how many children you have in the house, but if no one has a lock on their door and no one has been allocated sharing on the basis of sex, I can see why they wouldn't think for a minute that anything was wrong. It sounds like a completely relaxed set up.

Of course you could have anticipated they'd leave the house - your dh made it clear that he viewed the friend as a threat to your dd (I can see why but it will have been a shock to both boys - if they're nice kids - to be viewed like that). Friend can hardly stay in house after that and good on the cousin for not letting friend walk home alone at 2am.

I'm not saying cousin acted correctly in bringing friend into bedroom but I'm viewing things as an adult. I really doubt either cousin or friend looks as themselves as a potential threat to young girls. Now they'll understand thats how others see them.

The sharing with the cousins isn't wrong.

It's that the 16, 17yr old & friend didn't have the sense to doss on chairs/sofa rather than disturb the 13yr old.

They were invited back, then all of a sudden a complete stranger is storming about and swearing and saying they shouldn't be there. At their age I would have left too, I would have been far too embarrassed to stay when I was being told I wasn't welcome there.

When did OP's DH say the cousin shouldn't be there? And since when was her DH a complete stranger to the cousin? Surely both the cousin and the friend should have been able to work out for themselves that it wasn't appropriate for the friend to be in the bedroom? It sounds like a big house, the obvious thing to have done would be to put the mattress in the sitting room or somewhere similar. If the friend didn't want to stay there, it was dickhead behaviour for the cousin to go with him without even bothering to let his parents know.

I'm amazed that people think teenagers of 16 or 17 can't behave properly and with a bit of consideration. At 17 I was married, pregnant, holding down a fulltime job and saving to buy our first house. I was 19 when we bought and renovated our first house and by that time had a child, fulltime job and was planning baby number two. The idea that I wouldn't have understood that waking up 13 year olds and allowing people they didn't know to share their room without their parents knowing about it is just ridiculous.

OP I don't think yabu at all. The cousin should be apologizing to her and the cousin should be told off as wandering off at 2 am is not on.