To expect DH to tell FIL to sort his attitude out?

[BoopTheSnoot]

Slight backstory- I've been married to DH for almost three years, but we've been together for ten.
I've never really got on that well with FIL but we always made an effort on the face of it.
But things have deteriorated since I had DS in 2014. There has been no argument, no confrontation, but one day just before Christmas 2014 FIL just stopped talking to me altogether, including ignoring me in my own home. He blanks me in the street, he blanks me when we visit, just ignores my existence. I asked MIL if there was an issue, she denied that there is a problem.
Fast forward to now, and FIL has started making snide comments about DS. He says he's a whiny child (he isn't, but he does get very shy around FIL), how his other grandchild is the only one who was 'a good idea', he abbreviates my son's name and uses it to rhyme the nickname 'Smelly Elly' ALL the time. FIL and MIL take their other grandchild for days out regularly and have sleepovers but very rarely see our son if we don't do all the legwork.
My question is this: why the hell won't my DH tackle him about it?! If I bring it up he rolls his eyes at me and says I'm looking for a family row. NO! I just don't want to be treated like second class citizens for reasons unknown. And if he won't defend me, he should at least stick up for his own child against his horrible, horrible dad. Of course, I speak up in DS' defence but it gets ignored. I really think it will take DH speaking up for things to change. AIBU to expect him to bloody grow a pair and take his parents to task?
Sorry for the huge rant but I am so annoyed!

To clarify- when I say we've had rows, here are when they were and what about:

• The first time was years ago, I pulled him up for reducing DH's grandmother (MIL's mum) to tears for absolutely no good reason at a family BBQ. The woman was 77 for goodness sake and he lost his rag at being confronted. Rightly or wrongly, I gave as good as I got and still don't regret it.

-He called my DH a c**t once a few years ago and threw his satnav out of our car window. We did have words about it! -The day after our wedding, it was brought to my attention that he physically squared up to one of my female relatives. I won't deny, or try to justify that I totally lost my shit about that and there was a big old barney over the phone about it. -We've had maybe three rows about his comments towards DS. I'm not saying I'm blameless in having gotten into arguments in the past, it takes two to row and I know this. But I do think the guy is a bully and he deserved taking to task on each occasion.

I've got it now OP he's a bully then and true to form for every bully he's a coward so he picks on women.

You haven't let him get away with it and you've stood upto him(good for you)that's why he doesn't like you,your not scared of him but he is scared of you.

You really do need to go NC with him and I'd do it before you have your new baby.If your second baby is a girl he'd belittle and bully her for the rest of her life.

I see they've worked it round so that you feel you're not blameless for taking him to task when he's being a shit.

Don't let your DH make out that it's you who's causing the problem, if he doesn't feel strong enough to stand up to him (and I don't blame him tbh) then there is only you between your FIL and your DS.

You were/will be right to give as good as you get.

Everysong

Even if that is the case, and FIL has valid reasons for feeling aggrieved towards the OP, there really is no excuse for his behaviour IMHO- especially that in relation to his grandson. It's possible you are right in that there is more to the story and perhaps OP has said or done something to upset/anger her FIL. However, given his horrible behaviour towards his grandson, I'd say there is a distinct possibility he's just not that nice a person.

It's really not acceptable behaviour to be so rude to someone in their own home- you either stay out of their way entirely, or if this is not possible then you are at least polite (but distant) when you are in their presence. You don't have to pretend to like them, just be civil.

As for being actively unkind to your grandson because you dislike his mother/his mother has been rude/unkind or whatever- that's just ridiculous. As for calling your young GS names, that is an unkind and bullying way to act towards a young child. The fact he dislikes the child's mother is not relevant when it comes to behaviour towards his GS. And comments such as "my other grandchild was the only one who was a good idea" are pretty inexcusable really.

OP- as I said to Everysong, regardless of his feeling towards you (and the reasons or justification for them) when he is in your home he should at least be civil and if he can't do that then he should not visit. When you are visiting them, again manners dictate he is at least polite. At the moment, your FIL is behaving like a bad mannered, spoilt child.

More concerning, though, is his behaviour towards your DS- it is completely unacceptable and your DH needs to speak up for his son. You may be able to defend yourself if you need to, but he is too young to be able to. I think you are right not to allow DS to be unaccompanied whilst with your FIL- and I would be open with your PIL as to the reasons for this.

Have you challenged FIL when he calls your DS names? What do your DH and your MIL say/do when he calls your son names or tells you "the other grandchild was the only one who was a good idea'? If they have heard this and feel it is appropriate way to speak to or about a young child I think it probably tells you a lot about their family dynamic (e.g. perhaps FIL has always been a bit of a bully so they see this as normal behaviour?).

I think you also have a DH problem too, by the sounds of things though.

I think you need to be clear with your DH re your concerns as to FIL behaviour towards your DS and ask him to tackle his DF about it. If your DH won't speak to is DF, or your FIL will not change his behaviour, I would simply absent yourself and your DS from as many visits from PIL as possible and would allow supervised contact only. I'd also be wondering why my DH would allow his son to be treated so unkindly by his grandfather- not sure if I could tolerate that, or more precisely not sure I would want to be with a man who felt was happy for his child to be called names and for it be implied it would be better if his son had not been born.

jacks11 when he decides to start name calling, DH and MIL treat it as if it's a joke. To me, calling a 20 month old names is no joke. Whether that child is mine or anyone else's for that matter.
It was the same when he referred to my niece as being the only grandchild who was a good idea.
That was the last time I saw him. It was at a family breakfast (he loves everyone to meet up for breakfast every couple of months). He also asked if we could put it to a table vote if 'Smelly Elly is just a whingy kid who's never happy'. That was the point that I gathered my son up and left without DH. This is why the subject has come up again- another breakfast is pencilled in for next Sunday. I'm insisting that me and DS will not be attending, DH is pushing me to give in but will not tackle FIL about his behaviour. We're at a stalemate.

At no point jacks11 did I say that his remarks about or to his grandchild were in any way acceptable.

OP, just read your update.

Your FIL sounds like a bully, and it would seem his family are so used to it they have become inured to his behaviour and think it is a normal (and acceptable) way to behave. It isn't.

You have stood up to him, which is why he doesn't like you- you won't tolerate his behaviour and challenge him when he oversteps the mark. So he is now getting at you through being unkind to your DS. Either that, or his bullying is so ingrained he aims at young children out of habit/because it makes him feel better.

Whatever the reason for your FIL behaviour, I would suggest you go minimal contact- and even that should be supervised- or NC. Your DH is free to see them, but you and DS will be absent if they visit and will not be going to visit them. Your FIL is unlikely to change unless everyone around him calls him up on his behaviour- and that seems pretty unlikely from what you've said. On that basis you have to change your behaviour (i.e. not allowing access) in order to protect your DS and any other children you have.

I think you also need to have a chat with your DH about this. I find his behaviour almost as unpleasant as his father's TBH.

Don't take him to the breakfast. I wouldn't.

No, I would not be attending the family breakfast. I would spell it out very clearly to DH why this is- and FIL/MIL if they ask you. I simply would not put myself or DS through it.

When you say to DH that you don't find these names a joke and you'd like it to stop, what does he say? When he made the remark about the table vote, did your DH think that was funny?

Your FIL is horrid. Your DH sounds pretty spineless when it comes to his father.

jacks11 in the past when we've discussed it he has said that I'm reading too much into it, being a bit sensitive. He did look uncomfortable about the ridiculous table vote comment, I think we all did. Nobody really had chance to say anything much about that because I was out of there in record time. I think FIL would have worn his latte courtesy of me otherwise. I'm not proud to say that DH stayed the night with MIL and FIL that night. I couldn't even look at him for not doing anything. He is causing so many rows between us, but it seems he'd rather fall out with me than with his dad. No way am I going to that breakfast, or anything else, till this is addressed properly. If I'm being totally honest, I can see FIL bringing about a separation between me and DH which does break my heart, but DS and his wellbeing will always be my first priority. How can I ever be on good terms with a man who doesn't put his kids before his (petty bully of a) dad?!

I imagine your DH would rather fall out with you than his Dad because he feels more secure in his relationship with you than he does about that with his father.

His father has behaved like this all his life, so to some extent it probably doesn't register with him in the same way it does with you.

If I were you, I would have a long talk with your DH. Say what you've said here- it feels like he would rather fall out with you than his father and that you are deeply upset about the way his father treats both you and your DS. Tell him you feel he puts his father before you and his son. Be really honest. Explain the strain this is putting on your relationship and ask him where he thinks you should go from here.

Other than this issue, is your relationship on a good footing generally?

We have a fantastic marriage apart from this. It's the only thing that we fall out over and struggle to communicate about. He's a great dad to DS in all other aspects- I can't knock him at all. In a way, that makes the situation even more difficult.

What is the gender mix between DH and his siblings? Just wondering if the mother of the "good idea" grandaughter is his DD, and the rest are sons?

I agree that you must insist on NC. If your DH wants to continue in the unhealthy dynamic then thats up to him, but you have to protect your son. My DD was 4 before H's mother met her, and that was under strict supervision and with lots of rules in place. I know that she would love DD to stay over, as her other grandchildren do, but the way she has acted in the past and the behaviour she has excused in her other children towards H and I has meant that that will never happen. H would still see her sometimes, but I flatly refused to allow DD to go when she was tiny and he had enough sense to not argue with me about it.

My DH has one sister and four brothers. The favoured GC is the child of BIL, but he is the golden child. Incidentally, the partner of that BIL is the only one who is liked! Funny that, hey?

I had a hunch that it was a DD he favoured, but yes funny that the only granchild he likes is the golden childs, child!

And there is your answer. Your DH has grown up being one of the ones that are not favoured, was probably called names and compared unfavourably to his brother. As far as he is concerned, what is happening to your son is perfectly normal as that is what happened to him. Its so sad :(

Would he agree to counselling so he can see that the way he was treated was not ok and it isnt ok for your son either? Of course that would then open a whole can of worms for him that he may not want to deal with. It could be that it isnt that he would rather upset you than his father, but that he doesnt want to face his own feelings about the horrible way that his father treated/treats him. So he adopts the survival technique he learned as a child, which is to laugh off the hurt and pretend everything is ok.

BoopTheSnoot you are most definitely not being unreasonable.

I think elfycat has hit the nail on the head.

BoopTheSnoot, I have not experienced this but you have my sympathy, it sounds awful.

I really think you need to make your DH aware of how stressful, unpleasant, and NOT NORMAL all this is.

If your dh wants to go on seeing them then he could do so alone.

I know I am conjecturing a little but when your new baby arrives this could really put the cat among the pigeons. The grand parents or FIL may treat your new child like you ds and you would want to keep both of them away from this! But what if new child were treated like the other grand child. Then you would face the terrible choice to remove a child from contact with grandparents who loved him or her, for the sake of the other siblings, your ds. Which, in your shoes, I would hope I would do in a heartbeat because it could affect their relationship to each other! Of course you will not know how all this affects the existing relationships until new baby arrives.

jacks you said "I imagine your DH would rather fall out with you than his Dad because he feels more secure in his relationship with you than he does about that with his father. "

But the OP has said " If I'm being totally honest, I can see FIL bringing about a separation between me and DH which does break my heart, but DS and his wellbeing will always be my first priority."

OP I really think you need to make it clear to your dh how much this upsets you and how potentially dangerous it is for your son's self esteem. It seems your FIL has succeed in cracking your dh's self esteem to the extent that around his dad be becomes spineless! Please do help your dh to see this, seek counselling together if you need to. PLEASE do not let your horrid FIL cause the break up of your marriage. Your dh is not your first priority, I know, but he is a priority and making him aware that his father is treating his own son, and you and your son very badly is something that a counsellor may be able to do. Prepare for the potential for this to open some flood gates of resentment from your dh, which may lead to family healing or may lead to your dh also going N/C BUT may also lead to the better and more stable condition of your own marriage and your own family with the three, soon to be four (congratulations) of you. Your DH MUST* realise you and his soon to be two kids must, must, must take priority over his father.

Can MIL mediate or is she under the thumb of FIL?

There is no fucking way I would go. The vote thing is the cherry on top.

I wouldn't go, my child wouldn't go, I would cut out PIL of my life.

I would also be clear with DH that this isn't up to discussion. And then broken record technique "I'm not discussing this."

Does DH really think it's acceptable to call a baby names? Would he like it if a child at school kept calling him names? Or asked for a vote etc? Why note? It's nasty isn't it? Would I want my ds to behave like this to another child? Would I expect the teacher to tell a child off for behaving like this? it would be bullying if another child dos this wouldn't it? See if you can get him to name the behaviour.

I would find it difficult to respect DH for not protecting your child from the name calling, and would definitely not attend the breakfast.

Life is too short to spend time with people who make you miserable.

Italian
The grand parents or FIL may treat your new child like you ds and you would want to keep both of them away from this! But what if new child were treated like the other grand child. Then you would face the terrible choice to remove a child from contact with grandparents who loved him or her, for the sake of the other siblings, your ds.

Even if they did favour the new baby, that wouldn't mean they love the baby. People who pick favourites among their children or grandkids like that are not acting out of love, they're enjoying the power of being able to manipulate, and for the golden children it can be as destructive as for the scapegoat (e.g. they may be encouraged to bully others and see that as normal).
No, there is really no downside to getting people like this out of your life.

don't go to the breakfast. i'd go nc. your dh can see his family if he wants, but i don't think it's good to continue to see him.

Don't go to the breakfast.

If your DH brings it up I agree the broken record technique is appropriate but don't say "I'm not discussing this" say "I will discuss this once you gave spoken to your father".

Your DH needs to step up - I know you say he's otherwise wonderful but allowing his wife and child to be treated so appallingly is a massive red flag

Please keep your DS away from this awful man. He is giving you an insight into how your DPs childhood must have been.

FiL is a cruel, manipulative and angry man.....