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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask what people did before formula?

450 replies

Annabelleinapickle · 21/03/2016 16:49

There's always a BF/FF debate but genuinely what did we do before formula existed? It worked fine then, people produced milk? Personally I think it's all the devices, unhealthy crap invented that has made our bodies less able.

OP posts:
BertieBotts · 21/03/2016 19:03

If you think about it really bluntly, survival of the species does not require every single baby born to survive.

So several factors at play, really. People had more babies in the past due to lack of contraception. But infant mortality was high. I think Hans Rosling actually has a good statistics video on this - as infant mortality goes down the number of children a family has goes down. The number of surviving children tends to stay roughly the same at around 2 per couple, interestingly enough.

So yes some babies died. They would have died from various things - more disease about before vaccination. Simple illnesses which we now treat would have been deadly, especially in babies. Childbirth was dangerous without modern knowledge and technology. Cot death, accidental suffocation from improper bedding. Accidents. Babies were often soothed with things which we now know are poisonous or drugs - alcohol, opium. There were dangerous substances around in the home. Smoke from cooking fires, lead in paint and toys, etc. In the past people didn't understand hygeine and infection so they didn't necessarily wash things properly or avoid contamination. Because there was so much death around, it was just sort of taken for granted. People didn't really think to properly investigate babies' deaths, they just assumed it was the way of the world and/or God's will.

There is an interesting website called the Baby Bottle Museum which has a lot of information on early bottles and pap feeders. We actually have evidence of people feeding babies on "pap" (which is basically mush, as others have said, made from things like flour, other animals' milk, any kind of semi-liquid food.) dating right back to Egyptian times, so it's always something which has happened. Whether it was as a supplement to BF or to replace BF, we can only really speculate, but certainly, humans have been feeding other foods to babies for a very long time.

Then the other evidence we can look at is the ways of less developed nations - there is lots of information about this in the book The Politics of Breastfeeding, which is a really interesting read if you're curious about this kind of thing. There are several nations around the world where breastfeeding still has a high prevalence and we can likely assume that practices here would reflect practices in our own society at less developed times. A recurring theme is that women would happily nurse each others' babies. Not only in a wet nursing sort of scenario, but aunties, even grandmothers, would help out a new mother who is not producing enough milk or who just needed a break. There is a different attitude - breastfeeding is something which happens, it isn't a complicated process to get right. And supplements are given almost everywhere except in those nations where food is scarce.

I do think that we have lost some of our sense of breastfeeding awareness in that most women by the time they come to give birth have never even seen anybody else breastfeed before. In past times when women had more babies and the spheres of the sexes were more split, young women would have been around more breastfeeding mothers and had chance to witness and learn first hand. They probably learned some old wives' tales, too. But they wouldn't have had the anxieties that we have about babies feeding for "too long" or wanting to see how much the baby had taken because they wouldn't have had that option. Now if we want help with breastfeeding we often have to seek it out and the experts we turn to, really, are experts who have just observed a lot of breastfeeding. Some of our modern knowledge of BF comes from science, but a lot of it is still observation. It stands to reason that if you'd always seen breastfeeding happening around you, you'd pick up knowledge that just isn't as common today. This is also backed up by the stats we have which show women are more likely to breastfeed and to succeed at breastfeeding when their family and friends have breastfed.

It's a complex topic. It's certainly not as clear cut as to say "Everyone could do it in the past!" but I think it's also simplistic to assume that babies were starving to death left right and centre because women couldn't breastfeed. The evidence we have of BF-dominant nations/cultures suggests that this wouldn't have been the case. I do believe that failure of BF must have contributed to infant mortality, but not as highly as is being suggested here.

sonlypuppyfat · 21/03/2016 19:09

I always felt that I missed out on my ideal career, wet nurse, I made gallons of milk. I remember unhooking my bra and spraying the room. It was everywhere all over the TV pictures everything. But I do realise not all women were as lucky as me

EsmesBees · 21/03/2016 19:14

If you are ever at a loose end in London it's worth popping into the Wellcome collection Medicine Man exhibition. Lots of interesting exhibits about the history of maternity and post natal care. Including Roman baby feeders and nipple shields through the ages.

Woodhill · 21/03/2016 19:18

I remember in the 90s Nestle was trying to encourage formula feeding in India which would be expensive plus not always facilities for sterilisation et

AdvocateNotAdvocat · 21/03/2016 19:23

Actually in developing countries formula feeding is normally the absolute last resort - meaning baby was already seriously in need of better nutrition than they had been managing to get from breast feeding. So of course more formula fed babies die than bf in those countries.

I agree to your first point. However many formula companies exploit and undermine women's lactation in developing counties for their profit margins, thereby compounding the situation. I'd like to see your evidence to suggest that formula is a "better" source of nutrition for any baby.

Alisvolatpropiis · 21/03/2016 19:35

sonly

I didn't realise until after having my daughter that apparently women don't all have the same number of milk ducts (the Internet told me, I'm prepared to be told that is incorrect).

Tfoot75 · 21/03/2016 19:40

Nowadays a mother being unable to successfully bf could mean anything from having no milk at all to being able to produce just slightly less milk than baby needs to thrive, or tongue tie etc makes it too difficult - and because there is an alternative that is very nearly as good as the real thing (as in, differences in outcomes can only be seen on a population level), clearly it is better for both mother and baby to ff in those cases, than for the baby to be lacking enough basic nutrition to thrive.

If the same mother and baby had been alive at various points in the past, she may have struggled on, supplemented with other milks or something else, weaned very early etc and the baby may well have gone on to thrive following weaning, or it may have had ongoing health issues or maybe died from malnourishment.

The link with evolution is a bit difficult, as shown by pp it is possible for babies to survive and thrive on condensed milk or other forms of nutrition, so the ability to successfully bf has not been critical to survival in the past, and isn't now (although likelihood of survival is now much higher).

MrsDeVere · 21/03/2016 20:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Eustace2016 · 21/03/2016 20:04

I also recommend the Politics of breastfeeding book. It's fascinating.

As a new grandmother who fed babies not that long ago but long enough such that I have no milk, I find it very unnatural and strange that I have no milk for the baby actually. It's been a very interesting feeling. I have never (and not sure I would) bottle fed a baby - not even for 20 seconds with any of mine.

Very wise comments above of course. We are very lucky in the West to have lots of alternatives so parents can choose.

chachaboom · 21/03/2016 20:09

I've thought this too, op, thanks for asking. I had a rough idea ( grandmother mentioned Carnation milk once) but I've learned lots more esp with regards to developing world. We're lucky buggers to live where we do.

HarlotBronte · 21/03/2016 20:17

If you think about it really bluntly, survival of the species does not require every single baby born to survive.

Absolutely bertie. Nor even a majority. I'm always amused when people cite evolution as a reason why problems with things like breastfeeding or birth must be rare. Evolution just means a process is good enough for sufficient examples of the species to survive long enough to breed at replacement level, and be around long enough to rear those offspring where necessary. That's all. No need for it to be perfect, or even particularly good, or to apply to the majority. There are species where the vast majority of young die and they've still managed to stick around for eons. Yet that would be an evolutionary failure according to this mindset.

crackedphone · 21/03/2016 20:30

my maternal granddad was wet nursed during the day for 3 months, other than that he had evaporated milk as a formula,

While going through some old paperwork from my mil we found a recipe from 1920s boiled cows milk, leaving it to cool then adding orange or lemon juice, salt and sugar. The thought of giving an infant warm milk with curdling juice is quite revolting.

My maternal grandmother had 8 children, 7 surviving , breastfed as was the fashion for only 3 months, then used tinned milk, condensed or evaporated or if money was tight made her own with millet to thicken as a first food.

Needless to say my grandad had a life time of eczema, my grandmother had milk intolerance and couldnt eat a warm loaf of bread!
My mother and her brothers had a good collection of atopic diseases, eczema , asthma, metal allergies.

My paternal grandmother breast fed her children for 1 yr, but did introduce solid food at around 3 months. No allergies or intolerance at all.

80sMum · 21/03/2016 20:34

I remember that tins of evaporated milk used to have instructions for dilution for infant feeding on them! That was not so long ago, in the '60s and' 70s.

RedToothBrush · 21/03/2016 21:16

No one is saying people used wet nurses only because of lack of milk. They are saying it was an option for those with money.

It was a matter of class too. Queen Victoria's opinion on the subject is interesting:
Queen Victoria found the idea of breastfeeding repellent, considering it the "ruin" of intellectual and refined young ladies. Her own daughters concealed from her their choice to suckle their babies themselves, leading her to brand them "cows" on discovering the secret. Surprisingly, considering modern perceptions of her as a Victorian domestic goddess, Mrs Beeton echoed this sentiment. She compared babies to vampires and advocated the use of the newly available powdered milks, administered in a glass jar, to prevent maternal fatigue.

The trouble with wet nursing was that what ended up happening was many of the children of wet nurses ended up dying themselves because they were not given breastmilk.

When bottles were first invented they had a lot of popularity with the middle classes. The trouble was that babies died not just from the contents which were nutritionally insufficient but more likely from the lack of hygiene as early teets were not sterilised and were a breeding ground for fatal bacteria.

So yeah there have been daft views about breastfeeding for years... and pressures in various ways. None of which do a lot for anyone.

Women as individuals making choices are generally not the problem - its about wider social issues and cultural attitudes that influence and put considerable pressure on women to do the 'right thing'.

TotalConfucius · 21/03/2016 21:25

For reasons of severe poverty (!) my mum could not take more than 6 weeks off work when she had me. So by 6 weeks I was weaned onto full fat jersey milk (gold top). She had two feeding bottles which were boiled in a saucepan to sterilise. This was 1967. We would have been put onto solids by about 12 weeks then.
Mum was absolutely fascinated when her grandchildren came along in the 80s and 90s and we all spent ages loading steam sterilisers, making up 8 bottles at a time, expressing with a pump, making baby rice with formula milk.
How times change. Is 'baby rice' still available?

MoonriseKingdom · 21/03/2016 21:39

I thought this thread would be another bun fight but it has actually been a really interesting and informative read.

I was fortunate to have had a relatively easy time breastfeeding my DD and really enjoyed it. However, I am glad we have a healthy and safe alternative. The formula scandal in China a few years ago makes you realise how lucky we are in this country.

Alisvolatpropiis · 21/03/2016 21:41

It does Moonrise. Incidentally the scandal in China is why the tubs of formula are restricted to two per customer. They were being bought by the shelf load and sent to China, they trust Western formula more than their own now. Which I can understand, really.

Out2pasture · 21/03/2016 21:51

I'm sure rice pablum is still around.

FinallyFreeFromItAll · 21/03/2016 21:54

I'd like to see your evidence to suggest that formula is a "better" source of nutrition for any baby

By better nutrition I didn't mean formula was better than breast milk. I meant better nutrition as in - baby is becoming malnourished/ starving to death because breast feeding is not working/baby is not getting enough bm - whether that's a supply issue or latch issue or something else. When you have a baby in that situation (and you've exhausted options to try and sort bf issues to get more bm in baby) you would look to find an alternative that can get more nutrition into the baby - the best option for getting more nutrients in baby (when bf hasn't worked) is formula. That's not really debatable.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 21/03/2016 21:56

Lack of knowledge and support was a massive problem for me when learning to breastfeed DS1 22 years ago. My mother was absolutely seething with disapproval, insisting something was very wrong because newborn DS1 could not go 4 hours between feeds. Even my health visitor was suggesting some sort of schedule with 5 minutes on each breastShock.

Once I had gone through the difficult and painful process of learning with DS1, breastfeeding my subsequent three was a pretty straightforward.

So I can well imagine many women would find it much easier to breastfeed within a supportive, experienced breastfeeding community.

imip · 21/03/2016 21:56

If anyone is close by, the museum of childhood in Bethnal Green has an interesting collection of pap and milk bottles, as well as other bits such as high chairs, walkers, rattles/tethers etc. worth checking out as it is very interesting.

I find this very interesting as I had a hell of a job breastfeeding my dcs. In 'ordinary' circumstances, I would have given up, painful feeding for 12 or so weeks, mastitis, babies didn't exactly thrive on my milk; but my first dd was still born and had an abundance of milk (I wasn't given the pills, awful engorgement and mastitis) and not being able to breast feed broke me. It gave me the drive to make breastfeeding work, but if i hadn't lost dd, I'm sure I would have given up. I have spent a lot of time pondering what would have happened long ago. Interesting thread....

EddieStobbart · 21/03/2016 22:00

I'm 43, my DM was a midwife, I wouldn't breastfeed and was slightly premature. I thought DM told me I'd been given evaporated milk but reading this thread I see was probably condensed milk. I seem to be ok!

FinallyFreeFromItAll · 21/03/2016 22:06

They were being bought by the shelf load and sent to China, they trust Western formula more than their own now

The makers of Aptimil (sp?) and C&G, do make formula directly for the Chinese market. The problem was after the Chinese formula scandle, everybody there wanted the formula made by the same company that makes our Aptimil and C&G. This meant a sudden boom in demand for their formula and it took a couple of months for the company to increase supply enough to meet demand. In that interim, people in china, unsurprisingly, looked to the west to get that companies formula under the brand names used here. That's why in the UK it predominantly affected Aptimil and C&G. It didn't affect SMA or hipp anywhere near as much.
So people living in China do trust their formula - but only the brands which are also sold in the west under other brand names.

EddieStobbart · 21/03/2016 22:08

Needless to say my grandad had a life time of eczema, my grandmother had milk intolerance and couldnt eat a warm loaf of bread!
Wow, sounds like I dodged a bullet.

Washediris · 21/03/2016 22:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.