To ask what people did before formula?

[Annabelleinapickle]

There's always a BF/FF debate but genuinely what did we do before formula existed? It worked fine then, people produced milk? Personally I think it's all the devices, unhealthy crap invented that has made our bodies less able.

I wonder if this knowledge thing has been a constant through all ages previous to our own, though. Lots of family disruption around the Industrial Revolution; people wouldn't necessarily be having their children close to their own family or have relatives on hand to call on.

My breastfeeding problems could probably have been resolved if I'd had access to support when I needed it. I'd imagine when there was no formula mothers had relatives and friends that they had seen breastfeed and learned from, and they could help with things like latching issues.

reallytired "The biggest challenge was sterilisation" In one of the Call the midwife books Jennifer Worth says the nuns discouraged formula feeding in the 50s/60s just because of this - there was no guarantee the bottles would be made up properly / sterilised / not left lying around for hours.

I find this whole topic very interesting and it makes me so grateful I had a safe alternative to breastfeeding.

Wet nurses were actually more commonly by upper classes for reproductive purposes because of the lactating affect on fertility.

BF was the norm and we were socialised to do so. Infant mortality was affected by social issues such as lack of immunisation/inaccess to clean water. In developing countries those who formula feed have higher rates of infant morbidity and mortality because of this.

erm no hmm Babies of poor women died, richer women had wet nurses, cows milk was also used an weaning was earlier

Exactly that. In the days before proper formula and after wet nurses babies were given cows milk mixed with sugar, or things like evaporated or condensed milk watered down.

And babies were malnourished because those things lacked the right vitamins and minerals.

There has never, ever, ever , ever been a time in history in ANY culture where all women have found BFing plain sailing. The difference between now and then is that we have found alternatives that mean babies don't die or fail to thrive, that don't really on a wet nurse.

Christ some really nasty replies on this thread.

rely, not really!

Rich people had a wet nurse so that they could conceive the 'spare' (after the heir) much quicker. Not because they couldn't feed.

One of the problems with watering down cow's milk was that the water supply wasn't safe.

If you lived rurally, with a healthy goat and a clean brook, you DC would be just fine. In a city, with adulterated food and milk in the first place and a Typhoid Mary water pump, chances not so good. Failure to thrive and infant death all too common.

I wonder if there has been a certain amount of informal wet nursing in the past that went unrecorded. A relative of my DH in her 70s breastfed the twins of a friend who was struggling. She told me about it when I was breastfeeding my DD. I think it is still a happy memory for her of being able to help a friend in need.

Cows milk ?

In developing countries those who formula feed have higher rates of infant morbidity and mortality because of this.

Actually in developing countries formula feeding is normally the absolute last resort - meaning baby was already seriously in need of better nutrition than they had been managing to get from breast feeding. So of course more formula fed babies die than bf in those countries.

Those that could use a wet nurse mostly did not do so because of a lack of milk!

Maybe not, but lack of milk is not the only reason some women find BFing incredibly hard. In a world without formula if you found BFing difficult or unpalatable for any reason and you had enough money you could of course employ a wet nurse. Sometimes it would have been for the sake of the baby's wellbeing and the mother's sanity, and other times it would have been purely a matter of lifestyle choice, just like FFing v BFing today.

That does not change the fact that if BFing were the bed of roses some insist it is for everyone if only they'd try hard enough, there would be no need for wet nursing or formula to exist at all. Would there?

Yes babies died. My uncle died because he could not feed properly. My father nearly went the same way but the advantage of being second born was that my grandmother realised what was happening and did something about it - I think she "fed" him sugar water until he was able to take something more suitable.

I live in a country where few women can afford formula. Wet nursing is culturally unacceptable unless the mother has died. 2% of people have HIV so this has risks anyway.
There are two types of consequence to this. One is that the child's life depends on a woman establishing breast feeding. Everyone prioritises this. We admit women to the ward in order to help them with this. Failure is unusual.
Alternatively, when women are struggling, they start to give pap (porridge made from millet and sugar) or they buy small amounts of formula and make it up weak. The babies get malnourished and some die. It is also very hard to make the formula up cleanly and to keep the bottles clean - imagine doing this over a wood fire. 15% of babies given anything other than breast milk die before 1 year old.
If we can't get breastfeeding established all we can do is teach the family how to use formula safely. We can't afford to supply it. Often the babies don't make it - it is very hard.

There was less breastfeeding failure because natural selection weeded out those who really couldn't breastfeed (in caveman times). People had more knowledge as saw family feeding babies.

Yes I think this is probably true.

Those who say "most women can breastfeed": no, most women can produce enough milk IF the breast is given the right stimulation at the right time. If you throw in a sleepy/early baby or a tongue tie or an illness straight after birth these may all interfere with establishing milk supply. In olden times babies with these issues probably died and hence did not pass on their genes. My suspicion is that tongue tie in particular is much more prevalent than it used to be because babies with a severe tongue tie now survive thanks to snip or FF whereas previously would have died. Same applies to families with a tendency to premature birth or jaundice.

I'm sorry you're struggling op. Hope you get the help and support you deserve. Yes, formula can be a lifesaver (often literally ). Not tantamount to give your baby heroin as some mws caring (?) for me suggested. And how can you not know this stuff?

Wet nurses, cows and goats milk and more babies died.

I struggled to feed DS. Chances are we both would've died during the birth though so it wouldn't have been an issue. Medical intervention and more csecs etc mean a much lower infant (and Mum) mortality rate. Babies that struggle to feed nowadays would very likely have died at birth or soon after.

Gosh MamaYoyo

How heart breaking

My mum gave me a leaflet that my nanna had in the 1940s about infant feeding. It suggested a recipe involving condensed milk, orange juice and cod liver oil which did not sound pleasant. I was glad for formula when I was unable to express enough to feed non latching ds!

I read a great article about this once and now, typically, can't find it. But if was about how breastfeeding is a learned skill. Society used to be different, women grouped together to raise the kids and look after the home. Families were often larger too. We had a large community around us all breastfeeding and all physically close to one another. As such girls grew up watching feeding and then had support all around from the other, older and more experienced, women to establish feeding. We also spent time not doing anything other than establishing the relationship. So more women would breast feed.

Society has changed. We don't behave like that anymore and so that is, in part, one of the reasons breastfeeding is often 'harder' now. Reading in a book is no substitute for constant in hand experience.

Thankfully as society has changed and demands have changed formula has become ever safer. Women have a choice.

I was going to suggest that improved maternal survival from difficult births has increased the number of women who find it difficult to establish breastfeeding in the early days as their bodies put their energy into recovery rather than milk production. Also there are more people living with health conditions that are managed that may inhibit feeding, that may not have been able to reproduce, or even survive.

I found it harder to establish breast feeding with an exhausted EMCS baby, while my liver function was haywire, and bloodcount low. My second baby who latched within the first hour was much easier. (We had more glitches later, but my point is about establishing soon after birth)

There have been Roman bowls, boat shaped for babies to drink from, so there always has been a problem

A fair number of women nowadays don't BF because they're on medication that contraindicates it. In Tudor times this wouldn't be a factor because they'd either just live with the condition in question or they'd have died from it, probably even before they became pregnant.

A lot of women don't BF for reasons that are very good reasons but not life or death, and are informed by the availability of a safe, affordable, feasible, culturally acceptable alternative. If you have repeated grim bouts of mastitis but the alternative is your baby's death then you carry on. If the alternative is your baby gets slightly suboptimal nutrition then you stop - of course you do. My DM had sensory / MH issues which made BF unacceptable to her. She'd have done it if the alternative was a starving baby, but not if the alternative was a baby getting formula. In the UK an HIV positive mother obviously won't breastfeed, but in Mamayoyo's country it may still be the safer option. In all these examples the availability of the choice to FF is clearly an excellent thing - even though the mother "could" BF if the alternative was her baby's death.