To ask for your help, I have been so stupid....

[Whirlytwos]

I am so upset right now, I am trying not to get teary.

For background, I have 16 month old twins, and a brain tumour, so am under a certain degree of stress.

Basically we moved house 9 months ago into a total 70s timewarp. I so need a kitchen that my DDs can play in safely while I cook, but we have a limited budget. Kitchen needs building work that hopefully will be underway in May. As a kichen centrepiece I wanted a beautiful high end cooker, but planned to buy 2nd hand due to budget.

They don't come up often so I have been waiting for one on ebay. Saw one a couple of weeks ago, priced at £2500, in perfect condition. No-one bought it, so I called the seller on the number in the ebay listing and agreed a sale at £2,250. They had 100% feedback. Transferred funds to his account, booked shipping, and a cooker arrived here on Friday. Note, private sale, no Paypal..... i know, stupid stupid me.

But it's not the one I bought! It's damaged, and it is a dfferent cooker with a dfferent badge! The seller won't return my emails.

I've spoken with his wife a couple of times, and she's tried a few different excuses about the cooker.
Like, it is the one I ordered....But it is clearly different to the ebay pictures.

Then she said I wasn't clear which cooker I wanted, But I was, the ebay item number was the reference I used for bank payment., and there was only one the same colour on ebay anyway.

Now she says the damage happened in transit! I paid for transit. I did pay for insurance.

Huffily she said if I pay to ship it back (another £85), then she'll refund me.

But I don't trust these people now. Can I make them arrange the shipping? What if they claim not to receive it, or say it's damaged in transit and so refuse to refund? That would make things difficult because the shipping contract would be between me and the shipper.

It also turns out they are in business selling high end used catering equipment. But they are not listed as business sellers on ebay, and I paid a personal account, not a business account. As I understand it, posing as a private seller when you're really a business is a criminal offence.

I spoke with the consumer helpline and they said the seller doesn't have to pay for shipping. But if I arrange shipping it puts me at even more risk.

I've been so naive, I am kicking myself. I have felt sick all weekend, and really don't know what to do next. So here I am fretting and porng over the nternet worrying, when I should be spending happy time with my DDs.

Does anyone have advice or know what I should do?

So sorry for the essay.

I think perhaps the phone call has scared him, so yeah I would also email stating everything he has said he will do on his part - time he'll turn up, what he has offered to do, then its all written down in black and white and if id does have to go any further then that's all part of your evidence.

I would also not let him leave with the cooker before he'd done a bank transfer back to you, and you or your dh have checked it is in your account (they say 2 hours but it's usually seconds). No messing around like he hasn't got the bank details - then he rings the person who has while he's stood in front of you and gets them to do it.

Keep mentioning about how you've been in touch with HMRC if he starts taking the piss.

And those who have lost sympathy for the OP - Have you never tried to get a bargain yourselves... of course you all have, don't have a go when she's admitted she's made a mistake and is asking for help to fix it.

Good Luck OP.

Facebook business page you say?

He's in it up to his neck isn't he...no wonder he's shitting himself.

Fab message. He wasn't pissed off at the 'fuck', he's a liar. He was pissed off because he wasn't getting away with conning you.

We couldn't get a return on some chairs once. They'd promise to collect and not turn up (but of course one of us, almost always DH, worked from home to wait in for them all day), not answer the phone, hang up on us, the works. Finally we resorted to posting a completely truthful online review telling the whole story. They immediately demanded we take down the review, and it got sorted within a week (!!). You could do similar if they have a facebook business page or yelp or google reviews.

Do they have the original oven for sale still.
If so but that (different user name) then claim not as described. Then send the other one back!

how did you pay exactly?

No, I think the cooker I bought has gne elsewhere. I got the inferior duff one. I paid via bank transfer to a personal bank account held by one of the directors (the husband), as now confirmed by his bank.

I asked yesterday that he confirm via email that he would collect and refund today, but he was huffing and puffing about it being in the same condition, which of course it is but that doesn't stop him claiming it's not!. He said he would confirm via email but then didn't. So I mailed him. I've pasted my email from last night below for those who are interested.

Today he's responded and said he's coming tomorrow. I think I have his attention now!

CookerMan,

Thankyou for returning my call today and agreeing to collect the cooker and issue a refund.

You have my apology for my very brusque voicemail, but perhaps given my circumstances you will understand why my message was so, especially when viewed in the light of the number of times I have tried to contact yourself to no avail, and the disappointing nature of the conversations with CookerLady; your wife and co-director, along with her repeated propensity to hang up the phone.

Since it appears that this can be resolved amicably after all, just to formalise matters, I assume my request for refund will be purely on the basis of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, specifically Clauses 2.9, 2.10, 2.11, and 2.13, although for simplicity it is sufficient to rely on one clause; that of goods matching their description.

The cooker I received does not match your description, being a different cooker and not in the condition described, as proven by Ebay photos and photos of the delivered cooker here. You will recall that my payment was made to your bank bearing the unique Ebay item reference number.

I therefore exercise my 30 day short term right to reject the goods under the Consumer Rights Act 2015. This would normally warrant a refund to be applied within 14 days.

However, given the highly unusual legal position within which we find ourselves, I do not think it unreasonable to require my refund to be applied either by the end of business on Friday this week, or by the date and time this cooker is collected, whichever is the sooner.

I hope to see you tomorrow, as agreed.

TheAmbler

Could you try your bank for a reversal? Or because the item that was sent was not what you had paid for?
I would contact ebay purely because they are being fraudulent though they won't help you get your money back unfortunately because you didn't go trough them. ( i too have been stung by transferring money to accounts whoch is why i will only pay by paypal or credit card now as the seller then disappeared off the face of the earth).

I think you should definitely do what others have suggested and tell them that unless you receive a full refund and they arrange the shipping of the item within the next 7 days, then you will be taking this case through the small claims court, and reporting them to HMRC and Ebay for acting as a private seller on ebay, even though they are a business.... Say that you are sure they don't want HMRC investigating their accounts, and they should consider how much this might cost them in the long run, as opposed to refunding you in the short term and having the whole matter being dropped.

Best of luck x

Could you try your bank for a reversal?

Once the money has left the account, it's gone. The only way to "reverse" is to get the receiving bank to act.

Assuming OP gets her cash back (fingers crossed, but there's many a slip ... ) I would wait a respectful amount of time, and inform HMRC (and the bank) anyway. That's if eBay haven't.

It's worth noting that one of the unmentioned budget changes now makes eBay , Amazon (and all online retailers) liable for unpaid VAT from traders pretending to be private sellers. I suspect this will lead to eBay et al becoming extremely aggressive if they suspect sellers aren't being honest, as they'll end up out of pocket otherwise.

Were kitchens terribly unsafe in the 70s?

Were kitchens terribly unsafe in the 70s?

no, just ugly! Our problem is that our skirting and doorframes have old lead paint on them, plus the kickboards.

The whole lot needs ripped out. Toddlers can't go furrowing round near old lead paint. It's scary how miniscule amounts interfere with brain development.

lurking husband thats not correct. I work in finance and at my old job we had plenty of incidents where the customers would not recognise the name on their statements as it stupidly had no correspondence to the company name, and asked their bank to do a 'chargeback' which took the money back out of our account. We then had to send documents (sales invoices etc) to our bank to prove the customer had purchased from us to get them to request the money from the customers bank again and get the chargeback reversed.
it is entirely possible to get her bank to do this - its not the receiving bank she would go to, her bank would deal with it for her.

I think LurkingHusband is right. If this was a bank transfer then there can't be a charge back. It is completely different to a card transaction, where there can be a charge back.

shoeaddict83 what shoe said. I worked briefly in the banking industry ( not with normal accounts so didn't deal much with these) but was told we could do chargebacks for things such fraud. I can't remember how much time you have to do it but the op hasn't left it long so shouldn't be a problem.

I'd try and leave them a message stating if they don't get their cooker picked up and refund your money then you will report them to everyone possible and including the police. People like this make me sooo mad...... they cannot get away with it. Try and stay positive, I know it's hard.

Not for a bank transfer you can't.

This explains when a chargeback is appropriate:

www.money.co.uk/guides/chargeback-claims-how-to-get-your-money-back.htm

Very interesting about the chargeback thing - i never knew that existed. Sadly i can't use it though as i didn't pay on card.

Just set up a good old fashioned bank transfer from my personal account to his personal account, as you would if buying something from a private individual rather than a business.

While I'm in my delectable kitchen feeding dds i thought i would share a corner of my kitchen with you, i hope you have strong stomachs!

It could be 60s, i'm not sure. To be fair, it's in pretty good condition, and i'm sure could look ummmm.... Suitably retro in the rght place?

70's I reckon. I remember those metal "handles" from my youth.

On the plus side... (of your kitchen) your dd's can't run into the door handles :)

Good luck, I've often been contacted at the end of a sale where no bids have been placed. The best option is to get him to put it on as bin and put the bid in immediately. Its not ideal but hey ho.

I have nothing useful to share but I'm very curious to know what kind of cooker costs £2500 secondhand?

Just wanted to say, no way would I be letting the cooker go until a refund had been received. He sounds like a crook, you'll be minus the oven and the money.