to think that Cultural Christianity is not a baffling concept?

[GooseberryRoolz]

I keep reading and hearing apparent bafflement about this.

It's NOT baffling is it?

I'd say I'm a Londoner and an atheist, are those linked to a "culture"?

I'm guessing academics would call those cultures, if that's a better, more neutral guide than us all playing 'IMHO'. I'd call them cultures too. I'd claim one of them as one of my cultures.

There's a difference between living in a culturally Christian society, and being a 'cultural Christian' though surely?

I was brought up an atheist but was aware from a young age that some of the things we did were due to living in a country which was culturally Christian ( celebrating Christmas, singing in church with the school choir, Easter eggs). None of those things made us 'cultural Christians' though, just aetheists who joined in with what everyone else was doing.

There's a difference between living in a culturally Christian society, and being a 'cultural Christian' though surely?

I'd think so. I've also always taken it for granted that people can mix and match, some more than others

OP, maybe it's because I'm a Londoner I'm not a fan of groupings of things, but it's just all so meaningless. how can it be the case that anyone wants to allocate a "culture" whatever that is, by things like food and art (your suggestions)?

Frances makes a good point about the UK being culturally Christian - that I can take as a fair statement as we still - insanely - base our holidays on Christian days. But I don't see much value in this "so and so is a cultural Christian" thing. What defines that person - giving Easter eggs and Christmas presents? You mention food and art. What does a cultural Christian eat then? What sort of art are they into?

lore

Do you mean that you think racist people use it, or that christian culture is conflated with whiteness? Or?

Gooseberry, I don't think racist people use it

I think some people think that I couldn't be culturally Christian because it's not the religion of my ancestors.

But as I don't really get it, am I wrong? I honestly don't know. I have been asked "what is your cultural background?" and I do think the inference is, it must be foreign because I'm not white.

the first time I heard it, it was my friend talking about her mum (who lives far away so I've not met her). My friend said "she's an atheist but she's a cultural Christian if you know what I mean".

In her case it meant that her mum was an atheist but got married in a church and gives Xmas presents.

Frances makes a good point about the UK being culturally Christian - that I can take as a fair statement as we still - insanely - base our holidays on Christian days. But I don't see much value in this "so and so is a cultural Christian" thing. What defines that person - giving Easter eggs and Christmas presents? You mention food and art. What does a cultural Christian eat then? What sort of art are they into?

If someone chooses to define themselves as culturally christian, they'd be able to tell you themselves how that manifests for them individually, wouldn't they? Public, national and orgainsational culture that is christian in origin is easier to see.

There's a difference between living in a culturally Christian society, and being a 'cultural Christian' though surely?

Absolutely - only a country can arguably be culturally Christian - as a country can't actually be 'a' Christian having no mind of its own :)

A human can't be culturally Christian - though arguably they can be culturally christian! (lower case 'c'!)

defined as:

• Christian = person who makes their own choice to follow Christ / follower of Christ / part of the Christian Faith
• christian = follower of the religion called Christianity - which sometimes has overlap with the Faith / personal following of Christ, but not always

so you can observe the man-made / rituals / steps of the religion called christianity - and can choose to do so culturally - but that doesn't make you a Christian...

Soemone who chooses to be a Christian, may then choose to follow the rituals - but the two are not identical - being a Christian is a personal internal belief and external acting out of that belief - a belief that Christ died for that person etc. a la John 3:16

so it all comes down to a difference between acts with a label and belief...

I'll have to sleep on that akk

Gooseberry - I've never met anyone who would define themselves as culturally Christian or culturally anything else.

If you're saying it's a matter of deciding for yourself, it's meaningless isn't it? I mean, you started a thread saying "Isn't this as common as knowing what KFC is" - but KFC is easily defined and identifiable!

I've often thought of myself as a cultural Christian but maybe I've been using it wrongly . I was raised Christian (baptism, confirmation, Alpha Course, the works) but no longer believe in God. But of course I've been shaped by my upbringing like everyone has, so while I wouldn't have my son baptised or get married in a church, I'd like to think of myself as a small-c christian person. Not that I think Christians have the monopoly on being nice people.

My partner (also ex-Christian) thinks this is nonsense.

It's obvious to me what the phrase means. I'm not at all religious, but having lived abroad for years in non-Christian countries, I'm very aware of the various habits, traditions and rituals that make me a "cultural christian."

I'm with the OP - I simply don't understand what it is that other people don't understand about this phrase.

Elle, what about you is "culturally Christian"? What are the things about you or your life that make you say that?

is the "I was raised as.." thing relevant?

if you've rejected it, then it no longer applies, surely?

I know what a cultural Christian is. Also a cultural Jew.

Do I get a prize?

Surely celebrating Christmas and Easter (as an atheist/agnostic) makes you more of a cultural pagan.

I give gifts, have a tree, drink and eat too much - eat Easter eggs and bunny shaped chocolate. Surely that's all more pagan in origin than Christian?

What does it mean then?

Does it mean that you aren't religious but you sort of follow certain rituals?
Does it mean that your very morals were borne from what is supposedly christianity?

What does christianity actually mean?

Hence my wonder at what these two words are supposed to purport?

No one should ever tell another human being that they should "know"

Its the latest "buzz phrase" apparently Eric

Well, Bertrand, you always know the academic terminology stuff.

When - yes, I was a bit floored when my atheist sister started giving me Easter eggs but I got a long lecture on paganism for asking. Though the chocolate was consolation.

Theoretical example

let's say mum is a practising Jain. I don't know anything about it - having been raised in a free way - and I have no idea about rituals, key dates etc etc.

Am I a cultural Jain? Obviously, the answer is no, but I've met many people who think I must be.

EatShitDerek "Is this another fucking thing people are identifying as now? "

^ quite.

ooh I could start a cult. The Cult of Lorelei9 sounds quite good.

Let me know and I'll join you Derek