Who was BU, me driving or man on horse?

[EsmeraldaEllaBella]

Sorry for another car thread! Name changed recently but am a regular poster

So today I was driving in the countryside, road is wide enough for 2 cars, 60mph road, very straight. There were 3 people in a line on horses coming towards me on the opposite side of the road. I was going about 40mph but slowed to 30mph when I saw them. The man on the front horse started waving his arms and looked really angry saying slow down slow down! Wtf? horse people around here piss me off so much. Was I BU?!

goblin because there isn't a hierarchy of road users with cars at the top . Cyclists and horse riders are equally entitled to be on the road as cars. Why should they pull in to let cars pass? Or are you suggesting they should do that because it is inconvenient for cars to slow down?

Goblin a rider is the most vulnerable person on the road, bar none.

It is FAR safer for you and your kids to squash into a hedge to allow traffic past than it is for a rider.

The Highway Code allows horses and riders as the ONLY thing on the road which don't have to give way to pedestrians at pelican crossings, because the horse and rider are far more vulnerable than the pedestrian.

Honestly, posts like that you show that some people need to read their Highway Code!

Honestly, some posters are just making themselves sound bloody ignorant.

I wish there was more random surveillance of the driving on country lanes tbh as some of it is just downright dangerous.

Do not understand why riders will not pull into safe gateways, grass verges, road sides when they are holding up traffic; the lanes I walk and drive through are used by walkers, joggers, dog walkers and families with buggies and small children, all of whom stand still to allow cars to pass safely; cyclists and horses, never.

It's often more dangerous to stand still - the horse is more apt to fidget, not knowing why you've stopped, and pulling in to a gateway often seems to make the drivers just whizz past without any attempt to slow, leaving you in an enclosed space with a frightened animal.

That is why the Highway Code does not say 'riders should get out of the way,' but rather 'pass horses wide and slow.'

The idea that you can just safely wheel your horse into a hedge, where it will wait silently until you ask it to go again

Well, I'm

If people are desperate to drive so fast, why don't they just use main A roads, dual carriageway and motorways. If you choose to drive down a country lane, the reality is you'll encounter walkers, cyclists, horses and livestock or you might get stuck behind a tractor!

what do you riders have to say to people who are always careful, who slow down for horses, pedestrians and cyclists but are sill at risk from 700kg of stupid unpredictable animal.

What would be your response to a driver, overtaking at walking speed and in the other lane when a horse spooked at a crisp packet and bolted into their car?

Do horses really not need stop at padeatrian crossings? Horses and their riders are really deemed more vulnerable than padestrians? Kind of goes against the idea of police horses.

The Highway Code allows horses and riders as the ONLY thing on the road which don't have to give way to pedestrians at pelican crossings, because the horse and rider are far more vulnerable than the pedestrian.

Where does it say that?

jlivingstone, good points. It drives me mad where I live with riding schools out on narrow roads with kids on big strong animals. If horses are so unpredictable and easily spooked then they shouldn't be on the road.

Having had an incident where I'd pulled my horse over and a car felt that was an invitation to over take the nice driver immediately behind me and then swerve in and hit my stirrup and zoom off I now (on single track lanes) ride towards the middle of the road until I know the driver has seen me and slows down. I spend the whole time listening for cars and trying to judge where we'll meet so that it's not on a bend (and I do turn round and trot away if I think we'll meet on a bad bend) If you pull in they never slow down. I know all the pull ins round me and if there is space like an open gateway then I'll go in, but I no longer go on the verge unless a car is stationary or almost. Having been traffic proof until my horse was terrified of cars after that incident - the bang as the wing mirror hit my stirrup completely unhinged him and if anything got close he would whip round - I spent ages at home trying to undo the damage initially getting him to go past the stationary car but with the engine running and then with it going slowly but he always tensed up and it was really horrible hacking out with him like that.

Sometimes it's easier to trot past than walk, I find a horse standing still is actually harder to control.

Arpege I appreciate you can't always take hands off the reins but I found in those circumstances a nod or a smile or a mouthed thank you usually goes the trick....

The Highway Code allows horses and riders as the ONLY thing on the road which don't have to give way to pedestrians at pelican crossings, because the horse and rider are far more vulnerable than the pedestrian.

Can't find that anywhere? Closest I got was "all road users must give way to pedestrians at ... crossings".

Love some evidence.

Livestock is unpredictable as well, do you want the farmers to stop crossing them? You are aware you could encounter wild animals too? Deer etc?

Really? A horse can go straight through the green man? Never knew that.

At Hyde Park Corner there's a special button for riders to press to cross the road - too high for cyclists/pedestrians to reach - that holds the cars for far longer, so that horses can cross safely.

I've met far more horse riders who smile and nod, or wave and pull over if safe to do so (and I fully understand why they might not be able to, that is fine) than ones who don't. They are likely to live locally and know the roads far better than visitors.
I'll pull in and wait for as long as it takes, pass very slowly if appropriate etc, because the road belongs to all of us, not just the car drivers.

I have only once felt a horse should not be where it was. Riding in a group up a narrow footpath at Rivington Pike on a busy day. One of them was seriously skittish and batey and by the look on the rider's face they weren't comfortable in their ability to control it, on a path rammed with walkers and small children running about, plus dogs off lead. I felt that wasn't a sensible decision, as I crossed over with my family well out of its way.

Vehicle owners pay road tax to cover this but it doesn't mean they take priority over anyone else who wants to use them

Road tax was abolished in 1937 precisely because it gave drivers a misleading sense that they were paying for the roads. Although the term is still used and people will say "pfft, you know what I mean" it is important to change it because so many drivers in all seriousness think paying VED gives them some entitlement. VED is based on vehicle emissions so in fact many drivers don't pay it - e.g. anyone in Band A, classic car drivers and emergency service vehicles.

This YouTube clip shows some of the applauding driving on the UK roads.

Is that like clap driving ?

I have only once felt a horse should not be where it was. Riding in a group up a narrow footpath at Rivington Pike on a busy day.

If it was a footpath rather than bridalway they shouldn't have been there at all.

I would say that if a driver can't drive in a way that gives them a decent chance of not hitting a horse who is playing on the road.

My earlier point about the pelican crossings I was told on my R&RS course. I'm not currently in a position to look it up but I'm happy to rely on what an accredited examiner told me.

We were on a 60 road doing 60 and passed some riders who were in field right next to road, walking parallel to road but behind hedge. I said to DH he should still slow down and he disagreed and said it was fine due to hedge

I'd question whether doing 60 was safe at all! I really wish it was clearer that limits are limits, not targets. I wouldn't expect a driver to slow down in those circumstances - I'd assume that at that speed they'd be going too fast to see me in reasonable time anyway, and give thanks for the fact that I was in a field, not on the road with them. I sometimes ride under those circumstances and my horse is sometimes a bit bothered but he's in a field and I'm not over-horsed on him so it's not an issue. Drivers of larger vehicles will often slow down but generally they're going slower anyway and they are higher up so have better vision and therefore time to prepare.

My earlier point about the pelican crossings I was told on my R&RS course. I'm not currently in a position to look it up but I'm happy to rely on what an accredited examiner told me.

I've looked and I can't find it anywhere in the highway code at all, either in the horse section or the pedestrian crossing section.

Those of you who won't / don't slow down, think horses shouldn't be two abreast or even on the road at all, where are you going and what are you doing that makes slowing down for a moment such a massive inconvenience? Really? And do you really not care if you kill a horse and / or rider or cause serious and expensive damage to your car? Wouldn't that be inconvenient?

It's not for a moment, though....certainly not if everyone obeyed the rules laid down here by the horse riders. Most country roads (round us anyway) are windy and busy...especially since the universal adoption of sat nav which sends all sorts of non locals and large trucks down here as a shortcut. My neighbour said that 30 years ago it was a rare sight to see a car on the main road through the village. Now it's incredibly busy and often congested. According to the one of the posters here, what this would mean is that two entire lanes of traffic should go for approximately 5 miles at the speed of the horses riding two or three abreast in front of them, as there is never going to be a place where one can safely overtake at such a slow speed. Before anyone says I am exaggerating, I got stuck behind a horse drawn carriage on the way to pick up my daughter from school a year or so ago....and I was 45 minutes late to pick her up. I kid you not - and I wasn't the only one - there was a tail back for miles and probably gridlock in the town centre behind as a result. There were six or seven little children waiting, bemused and upset. God knows what an ambulance would have done (although no doubt some of you would be complaining that the flashing blue lights spooked your horse!)

Bleurgh sorry that should be

"I would say that if a driver can't drive in a way that gives them a decent chance of not hitting a horse who is playing up on the road then perhaps they are the ones who shouldn't be on the road"

I've looked again and there's nothing in the "animal" section and nothing in the pedestrian crossing section (which simply tells road users they must stop. It doesn't add ... unless you are on a horse/bike/giraffe/elephant.)

don't think horses should be allowed on roads, although unfortunately, there isn't much that can be done. By riders own admission, they can spook at a crisp packet, a hedge etc. They are unpredictable and therefore dangerous. Cars, motorbikes, bicycles are dangerous too, but it's the drivers who are in control, not some animal

There’s a thread on here in response to a recent RTC in which a driver overtook a funeral procession, didn’t make the manoeuvre and so tried to pull over in between the horses and the carriage. Now you would hope that anyone so stupid they don’t realise there is no space between the horses and the carriage wouldn’t make it beyond the front door, let alone behind the wheel of a car, but they do. One horse was badly injured and had to be destroyed at the scene, the other was injured, as was the carriage driver. To say nothing of what happened with the funeral mourners.

I’ve hidden the thread because it got to the stage where the overwhelming sympathy was for the driver, who had apparently done something we might all do as we all make mistakes when driving. It is that attitude that is so dangerous on our roads. It’s quite clear in the Highway Code that you don’t overtake unless you can see your way forward is clear. If you decide to overtake anyway, and everyday I encounter drivers who do this, then it is you decision and any collision is your fault, not some “there but for the grace of god go I” mistake. So actually, no, cars are not somehow less dangerous than horses and drivers are by no means infallible and under control. Or at least they should be under control but they relinquish it.

You can see this in press coverage of RTCs which often make reference to what the car does but make little mention of the driver. And you can see it in these statements from PP (which I just use as examples, not a criticism of the PPs):

it strikes me as dangerous as oncoming vehicles might not see them until very late
a car felt that was an invitation to over take

The vehicle doesn’t see anything and cars don’t take things as invitations yet that is the language we commonly use.

Actually, IME my horse is pretty damn safe on the road. If he hears a vehicle coming he will ask me if he can turn round into a passing place or side road. He will stop if he thinks it isn’t safe. He will take evasive action, with my permission, because he knows we’re soft and squidgy and he does not want to be hurt. Drivers on the other hand are locked in a metal safety cage, with airbags and seat belts. They don’t have the same incentive to be careful and unfortunately, a sizeable and dangerous minority therefore aren’t careful.