AIBU to think its become shameful to admit to getting tax credits?

[smallspikyleaves]

it certainly is in my circle

I have had mine reduced recently and was moaning about it only for most of my friends to be kind of like, oh we don't get any anymore. when I would actually put money on that they actually do

It just used to be a given that most people with families got some. and people used to openly discuss it in my experience. now its all hush hush and taboo I think

Anecdotal and no figures:
I briefly dated a man working 4 days a week and earning low enough to have TC.
He was offered to work the 5th day, permanently.
He told me he declined because the extra wasn't worth it when he lost his TC.
So I think he would have had more by working - but I suppose the motivation isn't there if you'll lose a day off but not gain a full day of pay.

Me: but if you work the extra day you could push to expand your role and responsibility, you'll be more experienced and progress quicker...
Him: nah.

I actually think in the role he had, he could have made something career enhancing from the extra day and it was the wrong decision.
But if you have a low skilled job with no progression prospects, I can see why you wouldn't want to increase your hours for little net additional money.

Cannot, if what you are saying (and apologies if I have misunderstood) is that the tax credit system is one which means people aren't disadvantaged for working more hours or for earning more money, why is the 16 hours so often quoted by recipients of tax credits?

I won't pretend to be an expert since don't yet have children but from the outside, the flaws are that they increase according to family size, they decrease according to hours worked and money earned and they are very complex to negotiate especially when someone's hours fluctuate.

It just used to be a given that most people with a family got some

I don't think I know anyone who has or has ever had them. Hell, most people I know don't even qualify for child benefit.

That's indicative of a fairly lucrative social circle Simon.

Nope, I feel slightly embarrassed to admit we don't get them as it makes it sound as though we're very well off.

That's true Pink I'm just about the poorest one of my friends.

wow this moved fast

some interesting replies

to be clear, (to whoever asked) the 3 jobs dh and I have the hours are as follows: dh approx 45 hours a week in his day job, 13 - 15 hours a week in his second job. He also is at college one evening a week to try and get a qualification to become an electrician. (we pay about a grand a year for this) . I work about 20 - 25 hours a week. So that's around 80 HOURS A WEEK between us on average. so we fucking work believe you me, to be clear we have almost FUCK ALL family time and my youngest dc has been in childcare from when she 4 months old. she is 2 now and I feel I have missed out on so much. got 2 older ones as well and we are both permanently exhausted and feel like we have no energy left for them. although am annoyed with myself by rising to it and spelling it out

I genuinely feel like cutting my hours down and finding something cash in hand, if I could think of something and I thought there would be a demand then I would

I think a lot of people will do this if they aren't already

I also agree that it used to be acceptable to be a sahm on tax credits if your dp / dh was working

now not so much its completely looked down upon but I would fucking do it in a heartbeat if I thought I could

As most of us know, tax credits are based on the income from the previous year.
There is something called income disregard, that allows you to earn more the next year and still keep your tax credits.
At the moment, this is £5000, so if your income for 2015/2016 is £5000 higher than 2014/2015 you will have to pay money back.

So if say, someone is offered more hours and it will take them over the previous year's earnings by more than £5000, although great in the long run, they may not be in a position to pay back money already recieved, especially if their tax credits have reduced or stopped.

Genuine scenario here.
Single mother of 3 teenagers. Husband left her recently. She has not worked since before the eldest was born, nor does she want to work now. Divorce and finances still being worked on and currently STB EX DH pays mortgage and all household bills and gives her £1k a month to live on.
She is now in receipt of child tax credits for all three children.
I would totally support this if she was working or training for a job to contribute towards her own financial support. But she is not not dues she have any intention of doing so. How is this fair, given people up thread are working 40+ hours a week or holding down 3 jobs.

IMO the system needs reform.

I know this is true as she asked me to help her with her finances for her separation, divorce and form E

The tax credit system is one that traps people into long term welfare dependency. I disagree with the system which again, is not a criticism of individuals within it. However, I can think of numerous examples of people being offered more hours and not taking them due to the impact it would have on their tax credits and people offered a small promotion but the extra money would reduce their tax credits and therefore wasn't financially viable.

I was going to respond only to the first sentence, saying it's the opposite of the truth. The reason in-work benefits were invented is to remove the benefits trap that would exist if only out-of-work benefits existed.

I can believe people refuse extra hours because they get to keep very little of the money, I think it's (almost?) always an exaggeration to say that they actually lose money. The rules will be structured so that never happens. I think the withdrawal rate used to by something like two thirds, i.e. for each extra pound earned you would take home about 33p. I vaguely recall reading after recent cuts that there are some situations brought about by the changes where some people will lose money almost pound-for-pound. Obviously that's stupid, I can only assume it was allowed to happen because it only affected people in a very narrow band, but I don't know enough about it to be sure.

Sonnet If she has three teenagers her tax credits not stay as they are now for very long.
I would imagine her confidence is very low with regards to returning to work (I had a break of 5 years and the thought terrified me).

Sonnet if your friend has 3 teenage DC then surely she must realise that the pot will be dried up for her in a few years? What's she planning on doing then?

X post sultan

Op the only people we should be looking down on are this government and their right wing media cronies. Tax credits are supposed to help workers and you've nothing to be ashamed of.

Yes I agree that she only had a few years (she will loose 1 lot next year, one the year after and one 3 years after that). Her child maintanience will also be finite as well given the ages of her children.

I am frustrated as I have tried to get her to see this an use this time to re train or start a job and build up her skills and experience but she won't even discuss it! She is hoping spousal maintanience will fill the gap.

I think you will find the 16 hour thing is a minimum at which people have to work to receive tax credits...so basically you are making an assertion which you are unable to base in actual fact? I have no idea personally if people can be worse off working more - I can believe it is possible around thresholds. I also understand that an extra £2k a year may mean that the promotion isn't worth it if extra travel, childcare, suitable clothing etc are taken into account but in those situations it is unlikely the case that in 'money in the bank' terms, people are worse off even if their personal circumstances mean that they are. What I am asking for is something more than your -very poor- anecdotal evidence which shows that it is possible to be worse off working more.

cannot so I and others are lying ? We have never heard someone refer to not working anymore hours because it will affect tax credits? Maybe HB is involved as well - I don't know, I know nothing of the welfare system to be honest.

To be fair one of my close friends (3 DC, SAHM while hubby works FT and claims tax credits) said she didn't know how anyone could state that either, but it is a reason being trotted out over and over in my work place.

No. That's not what I am saying. I am, however, asking for the hard evidence. I can tell you I don't want to work more 'cos of my tax credits but you have no way of knowing if that's the truth. There could be a 1001 reasons why I don't want a promotion...none of them to do with tax credits. So many people seem to know someone who has used tax credit as a reason for not working more but I haven't seen any evidence of real people being actually worse off. I have fiddled with the calculators online and I can't make myself worse off!!!!

Tax credits helped me keep my full time job when dds dad left. I only got childcare help ( not a huge amount due to earnings ) but that little off the childcare bill made me able to keep working and paying my mortgage so not ending up on benefits and in social housing someone else needs. Now I have DP household income doubled so I stopped them before he moved in. Been a couple of years now. They need to remain because of cases like mine. They can help a single parent stay in work temporarily until her situation improves. Thought I'd add my positive tale to the thread

I think it's terrible how people claiming tax credits-who work! Have to feel ashamed. I claim tax credits but i work, I'm a single mum. I hope to one day be off all state benefits but the stigma the government has created is awful. It's an us vs them culture.

The elephant in the room is that housing costs are too high.

Yes. We basically had hyperinflation in the housing market between 97 and 07, but no-one will say this because it reveals the gross mismanagement of the money supply over this period.

I know from DH's local government work that a number of people working at the local council refused promotions due to tax credits. This inadvertently led to a bottleneck in the council organisation where these highly-experienced people were still working fairly junior jobs, so there were no job vacancies for younger people or recent grads or school leavers, nor could the council fill those promotion roles. As then the flow of people upwards through the council had stopped due to this bottleneck, they then had trouble recruiting for quite senior management roles and had to start jacking up the remuneration packages to attract applicants (whose CVs were often a little dodgy).

Tax credits should have never been created; they have cost a fortune to administrate. It would have been far better and much more fair, and better for the economic health of the populace at large, to cut income tax for the lower paid or substantially increase the personal allowance while re-calibrating the higher tax bands.

But then I'm a radical and don't believe anyone earning under the national average wage of £24K pa should be paying income tax.

rebecca don't lose heart. You will do it. Keep claiming them you need it to keep you in work! Fingers crossed the tory government gets the boot before people are being chases with pitchforks for simply trying to live.

The people being offered more hours. Are those hours set in stone and guranteed for a certain period or are they intermittent and inconsistent. If they are the latter someone could have their tax credit claim suspended and it could take weeks to get reinstated all thanks to inconsistent extra hours that are all over the place. It can take weeks for tax credits to be sorted and then ppl are expected to live on just that few days extra pay for WEEKS