AIBU to think its become shameful to admit to getting tax credits?

[smallspikyleaves]

it certainly is in my circle

I have had mine reduced recently and was moaning about it only for most of my friends to be kind of like, oh we don't get any anymore. when I would actually put money on that they actually do

It just used to be a given that most people with families got some. and people used to openly discuss it in my experience. now its all hush hush and taboo I think

So a real life example of tax credits paying more than a promotion?

And by that I mean actual figures?

No, I'm not saying that at all MrsJayy

Mrs A might work full time and work hard - she receives tax credits. She's good at her job and is offered a small position of responsibility. The extra money she would get from this promotion means she is not eligible for tax credits so she turns it down.

Had Mrs A been able to take up that offer, a decade later she would probably have got other promotions and be earning considerably more. However, I understand that in the short term Mrs A had to do what she needed to do. It's a criticism of the system, not Mrs A or her 'work ethic.'

Hard working people do deserve better than a lifetime of dependency on state benefits: I don't think I can put it any more baldly than that.

You do understand not everybody has careers some people have jobs and promotion in these jobs doesnt always mean more money. Dh is a manager and gets a salary when he wasnt a manager he would be on call out and earn more our children are adults now we couldnt have afforded promotion when they were younger and would have needed working benefits

Assuming the attached photograph is correct, cannot, easily enough. If you have one child and earn £24,000 and then are subsequently offered a promotion that would award you £2,000 p/a extra then you would cease to qualify for CTC.

Oh my you do understand looks snippy I didnt mean to be snippy sorry

At the top of the income limits you may only be getting £500 a year in TCs, so £2000 would still be worth it.

Of course I understand that MrsJayy but I think in fairness given the context of the rest of my post it was pretty obvious I meant promotions that had some sort of monetary benefit.

Some jobs just aren't workable with small children. That's fine: I'm not suggesting people should be forced into say, working anti social hours that would mean childcare costs would rocket up anyway. But nor do I think the current system is particularly fair to anybody.

The elephant in the room is that housing costs are too high. This reallocates wealth from the poor to the rich.

I do worry as tax credits look to be on the way out with UC.

No worries MrsJayy

In those cases then Donvinia people may well decide to run with the promotion but there are other cases where in effect it would come to the same amount, particularly where working more hours is concerned. There are hundreds of hypothetical situations and individuals will always reach a decision which suits their lifestyle as they see it. But as a rough guide, a system that doesn't make working more hours or earning more money a disadvantage in financial terms is ultimately fairer on everybody.

I agree pink, I have down shifted to a part time retail job now that we have paid off the mortgage.
Working extra hours is part and parcel of working in retail, I accept that but when I am constantly being badgered into it because X, y and z won't "because it'll affect their tax credits" is hardly fair on those who have never claimed them and don't really want to work almost double the hours they signed a contract to work for is it?
Ultimately I agree that a system where working more hours or more money inof making someone at a disadvantage is fairer on everyone.

That said, I don't see any shame in claiming them. Using them as an excuse to dodge out on picking up the slack in some types of Jobs is.

Except the £2000 would be more than the tax credits at £24k?

How could the system be fairer and not demonise benefits? rents are not going to be lowered childcare isnt going to be less expensive because childcare providers need to earn a living and their pay is shocking imo its all fine and well Dave and George spouting hard working families when they earn a hell of a lot more than the average family when their rent is paid by the tax payer.

Pink - I've done some calculations based on a single mum earning £24k with 1 toddler, paying £150 a week childcare, and every wage increase I've tried results in a higher total income for her. At 24k she'd get £6300 TCs (mostly towards childcare) so a total of £30300. At £25k = £30956, £26k = £31500, £28k = £32700, £30k = £33900.

So long as childcare doesn't change, she'd always be better off earning more.

Dovinia in that hypothetical situation that's a good example of the system working well, but there are other instances where earning more money = less in tax credits and thus a reduction in income.

People tell their work places that they refuse to do more hours because it affects their tax credits, people actually say that outright? Really?

At least two of my colleagues did imwithspud -'assuming the italics and confused face signify incredulity.

Colleagues at my work place won't increase their hours even when their kids are teenagers and won't do any overtime as it affects tax credits. I have a lone parent friend who has one 14 year old dd and won't inrease her working hours above 16 because she will lose housing benefit and tax credits .

Imwithspud -yes they honestly do In My work place (large supermarket)

Could you give an example of the system working as you say it does pink? I'm not trying to be confrontational I just haven't experienced it myself and would like to understand your view point.

So again, where are the real life examples?

I'm about to come to rely entirely on benefits for the next 3 years.

Just separating from H and 2 DC under 5. Dd goes to school in September but DS won't go til 2019.
Child are in my area is so eye watering it expensive that it genuinely does not pay to work.
I genuinely look forward to working again, it was part of my identity.
And even when I do work again Tax Credits are going to become a considerable and I indispensable part of my income.

I do know what you mean, have seen and heard a lot of it, I live in a fairly wealthy well-to-do area where people can quite stuck up and either there's a number of people here claiming but denying it, or they don't claim out of some misguided notion it's a 'benefit' and a black mark on them.

If you are awarded tax credits I would imaginits not easy to just take extra hours here and there the amount of hours will be set on claiming years ago we were on an older version of TC and you needed to inform them of changes so benefit couldnt be stopped and started

Cannot, two of us have given them to you,

Dovinia, I'm uncomfortable with sharing too much to be honest as one of the examples is quite specific and potentially identifying. I'll say this much - the lady in question had two teenagers and was offered a promotion (no extra hours, just a bit more in terms of responsibility) and initially accepted but later turned it down citing tax credits meaning the extra pay just wasn't worth it.

She could have been lying I suppose but I really don't think that she was.

I have also encountered a lot of people working 16 hours: again there is no judgement attached and tax credits are only part of the problem in that case, but just the same, it's not supporting people to get off welfare which we have to assume is the ultimate aim (obviously excluding disability etc.)

No. You are giving examples of people who have said they won't work more because it will mess with tax credits. I have asked for actual figures which show this is the case. Your example doesn't show that. Not by a long shot.