to say something about this at school

[HammerToFall]

DS has high functioning aspergers, one of his main issues is around food. He gets severe anxiety over food if it's something that isn't on his accepted list of things he can eat. It's usually colour and texture that put him off. He stays school lunch where they have a deli bar. Everyday he has the ham sandwich which comes with a bit of salad in the side.

Last night in tears he told me one of the TA's has been guarding the bin so that he can't put his salad in there, and then makes him sit at the table until he eats it (he is not going to eat the salad, he has never eaten salad in the ten years he's been alive). This results in him sitting there until the bell goes making him miss playtime.

Firstly I don't want him sat there in tears missing playtime, and secondly he is now becoming overly anxious of anything I put on his plate which is not accepted food. He doesn't have to eat this but I have always put it on his plate anyway just in case one day he decides to try it.

I'm going to say something this morning, I don't want to appear rude but I really think this needs bringing to a head. AIBU?

I can understand that questions but I think the answer should just be no - tell the parents that you won't force a child to eat.

I'm 30 and I still have issues with certain foods after being forced to eat them as a child in school, I find salad and most green veg vile and I'm fairly sure yoghurt with lumps of fruit in it is actually made in a special section of Hell.

I am constantly getting reports from nursery that DS refuses to eat fruit at snack time. Given DH didn't eat any fruit other than bananas until he was in his mid twenties it doesn't shock me, and I see no point in forcing an upset four year old to lick a grape. DD is even worse and currently exists on mashed potatoes, pasta, oatcakes and cheese. But only on the days she chooses to. So getting her to pick what she wants doesn't help because she doesn't always eat things she likes. Yesterday I gave her sliced cheese and let her pick her own crackers. She still didn't eat any of it.

It is frustrating, but forcing children to eat helps nobody. I hope the school take on board what you've said and your poor DS stops suffering in this way.

I'm NT and I remember being forced to eat fishcakes and puking up straight after so I missed that afternoon school trip. It will never happen to my children and it shouldn't happen to anyone else's especially with recognised additional needs. You are right to want to address it.

Just to back up questions. The dinner ladies would often complain about children (Y6 boys in particular) who were so desperate to get back to football that they would quite happily waste most of their meals.

You must say something to the school arrange a emergency meeting with the head, where did this TA get their qualifications in psychology?

This happened to our eldest(now in his mid twenties) at school , he is also on the spectrum, he was a brilliant eatter in his own way he would eat most things, but only in certain order, suddenly we had a child who was frightened of meal times, couldn't stand being near food, and turned out a meal time helper decided that she would stand over him at lunch times, making comments, forcing him to eat things, she would hold him his seat and taunt him, make nasty statements, threaten him, he was seven, it took him about twelve years to get past his fear of food.

I would make sure that this person is not allowed any where near your child again, especially when he is eating, make sure the head understands that this person must not be in the dinning room when your son is, and ask why they allowed this situation to develop.

If they had concerns about your son's eating habits, they should of contacted you.

I cannot believe that schools are still so inept at allowing untrained people anywhere near children.

I made sure the nasty piece of bullying shit never set eyes on my son again, but we lived with the damage she created for a long time.

DS1 still talks about what happened to him, don't under estimate the affect this may have.

Yes questions! We have parents who accuse us of with holding food from their children if they return home with most of the contents of their lunch box. . You can't win. I won't insist on any child eating anything . I remember being sick into my school dinners when the dinner ladies stood over me. However a lot of older children do skimp on their meals because they want to be first out to get the best football etc. That is a waste of money for their parents and and means they are hungry later.

Blimey; year 6s will be at secondary school in a few months and nobody is going to police what they eat, or even whether they go to the dining room at all, there. Do parents really want school staff to police what 10 and 11 year olds eat? Surely parents want them to be given suitable food in appropriate quantities (if they pay for school dinners) and an opportunity to eat it in a comfortable and appropriate place, but not for somebody to stand over them while they do it?

manicinsomniac you were referring to my effort at helping the OP in her particular situation.

Re your comment: "It's as if people think it's ok to have aspergers related 'pickiness' but not okay to have non aspergers related 'pickiness'. They are exactly the same thing."

No, not necessarily exactly the same thing. I know this as I have a DS with severe autism but was also an extremely picky eater.

I completely agree that no children should be forced to eat stuff but, in this case, wanted to make sure OP knew that they were not just being cruel but actually discriminating against his disability.

When you are the parent of a disabled child you have many battles, so probably don't have the energy to make it a crusade for all children with food sensitivities.

Honestly, can the disabled not have a little smidge of special consideration without people being wound up by their needs?

My child with ASC would be sick all over the table if they tried to force him to eat salad. I'd be really upset by this OP, sounds like you handled it well though and have given him coping procedures for if it happens again.

I remember being in tears at being made to eat fish fingers at school. They were grey and horrible.

I also remember hiding food under bits of other food, sneaking past the dinner ladies to get my plate on the tray return without it being noticed, being called back to take my plate back because I hadn't eaten enough. It got so bad that i ended up taking in little plastic bags to hide the food in!

How have things not improved since the 80s?

Btw I love food, not picky st all now, always did like nice food but the school meals were RANCID.

I would have challenged this too. He hasn't asked for the side salad, it's just there. Missing playtime? He's not playing with his food or throwing it on the floor. Now you have spoken to his teacher, she can raise this with the TA.

Brucie - in my own personal opinion, on this particular issue, no, they can't have any special consideration. I am fed up of trying to fight my own and my children's battles with food against comments like 'but they're not autistic so they're just being fussy'. Food phobia is food phobia, whether it's triggered by taste, smell, texture, content or anything else and has nothing to do with ASD. Of course anyone is free to disagree as much as they like but your language towards NT sufferers of food issues (it's not as he's picky, he has aspergers for fuck's sake') was very minimising. You don't have to bring children down as you support others. Just saying that it's unacceptable for all is fine.

YANBU unreasonable OP. Not even the slightest bit precious (I would know, I am definitely a little bit PFB with my son, even when I know I'm being ridiculous.)

I am 28 years old and this was what meal time was like for me at school. Luckily for me,my parents were the complete opposite and never forced me to eat anything, and would usually end up trying things in my own time.

My son is quite a fussy eater, and will get very distressed if food is pushed on him. I was wrong in my first approach, I pushed too hard with the best of intentions and made things worse. He's 4 now and over the past 2 years the list of thing he'll eat has tripled since I backed off. The nursery he goes to provides hot meals, he only really likes 2 of the dishes they serve each week and so I send a packed lunch in too. They are wonderful, they still put a small portion next to him and encourage him to even just ASK and talk about what it is, and while it is slow progress, he is slowly getting a little braver. Zero force feeding or punishment. Some might say it's pandering, but trust me, my son is THE most strong-willed and sensitive person I've ever met. Pushing doesn't work and yes, I believe it's traumatic.

Definitely speak to the Head asap. I would be furious.

OP, I would suggest you follow up your discussion with the class teacher with an email copied to the head and SENCO confirming your discussion - as suggested above, it may well be necessary to ensure you have a paper trail. Ask for confirmation that the TA has been told she is not to make your son eat the salad. If they're bothered about waste, suggest that they have a ham sandwich without salad available for him.

If they won't agree, point out that trying to force him to eat the salad and punishing him when he can't do so is serious disability discrimination; if necessary, be prepared to make a formal complaint to the governors and make a disability discrimination appeal to the Special Educational Needs and Disability Tribunal.

That's ridiculous manicinsomniac, I am no no way ever 'bringing other children down' in my heartless pursuit of special treatment for my DS. He has so very many disadvantages, I wouldn't wish any of them on any other child.

I was using 'picky' in the way the staff member in question obviously seems to view things as he/she guards the bin in this ridiculous way. I've already said that I would not have this done to any child but was trying to help the OP actually get a satisfactory outcome as quickly as possible in light of her son's particular needs.

Your quote "Food phobia is food phobia, whether it's triggered by taste, smell, texture, content or anything else and has nothing to do with ASD. " is just incorrect. People with ASD have issues with food and eating that have everything to do with their ASD.

This is a pointless argument, we believe the same things regarding this TA's behaviour but you are very quick to take offence to a perceived (but imaginary) slight.

DS2 now gets the option to choose dinners in advance (as does DS1 but eating isn't a problem there!). One day the choice is soup and a sandwich or Veg Crumble. He won't eat either - we picked soup and sandwich and said just eat the sandwich. On curry day he has picked chicken curry but will only eat the rice and naan bread, because the other option is pasta with the sauce already on (he likes his plain). He is a picky little sod who drives me nuts, but he is seven and quite able to choose and articulate his choices at school - I don't think anyone should be forced to eat.

I am a dinner lady and never force any child to eat anything. I might gently encourage a child to eat a bit more, but that's about it. There is usually a lot of waste, but rather that than making a child miserable. They won't starve.

I serve school meals and sometimes children say they don't like things but unfortunately i have to put it on their plate otherwise i can be reprimanded for it. I do say though i have to put it on your plate even if you don't eat it.

What happens in the hall with the supervisors after that is up to the school.

Regardless of his Aspergers (although I understand where you're coming from etc), it's quite cruel to do this with any child. I was at school in the early 70's and remember having to sit at the table to finish my scoop of lumpy mash and scoop of swede, i recall it to this day and how anxious it made me so I feel for your DS. Have a quiet word, explain what you've said here etc.

My daughter doesn't have ASD but she had such problems with food that when she was 5 she was warned that if she lost any more weight, even half a pound, she was going into hospital to have an IV to get something into her. At the time she was severely underweight and the only things she would eat was marmite sandwiches and a particular yogurt (not one you could get in the average supermarket) I can't imagine what would have happened if anyone had tried to force her to eat. It took years to get her to eat a reasonable number of foods but even now as an adult she has a number of things she can't eat.

She was being admitted to hospital as an 18 year old for an operation. The anaesthetist came to speak to her and asked her if anything was worrying her. You know like the GA, the op itself, pain afterwards etc You know what she said, "Will they make me eat peas?" We all ended up laughing hysterically but that was honestly the worst thing she could think of. Phobias are awful things and food phobias seem to be dismissed as faddy eating by alot of people.

Your poor DS, I think you've handled the situation very well. My 7yo ds has ASD and has issues with food, he is lucky enough to have a fabulous lunch time helper whose own son was a picky eater and she's able to gently encourage him to try new things without and pressure (she's much better than me at this). Similarly when I was the same age I had a fear of lots of foods and a lovely dinner lady used to sneak up and whisk away any food I didn't like when nobody was looking so I wouldn't get into trouble with the teacher "guarding" the bin.

If these support staff were properly recruited and in large enough numbers I'd like to think that all children could have experiences like this. It benefits nobody to take such a heavy handed approach to getting children to eat.

Our school cook piles the kids plates up with veg. Every day. He has to. It mostly gore in the bin. At the end of every dinner hour there is a bin almost full of wasted food. Trouble is it's also got cling film, yoghurt pots, crisp packets etc in it so it can't even be composted. It's a dreadful waste.

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Yes, I've often snuck away cold, unwanted food too. I'm a soft touch as a dinner lady. Also the infants are often still full of break time milk - they just aren't hungry.

This is such a shame
My 5 year old has always been mega picky and I've been amazed how good school have been. They encourage him to eat, but don't force him and he's already tried foods we couldn't get him to eat. They've really managed to get the balance right and I'm so grateful.
Pity not all schools seem as accepting of individual needs.