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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to feel discriminated at work for not having children

198 replies

rosieposie2 · 14/03/2016 20:38

Don't get me wrong I have a lot of respect for working mothers/fathers but recently in work have been feeling discriminated against.

There are 6 people in my department, 3 mothers, 1 father (John) and myself and another(Sue) without a child. Three of us at work take it in turns to work till 6 (the 3 mothers can't as they have children to pick up from nursery).

Last Thursday I asked to leave at 5.30pm as I had an appointment, Sue was rota'd to work till 6 but phoned in sick and John couldn't because he had to look after his children. Our manager told us that one of us would have to stay till 6pm and all the parents said that it would have to be me.

I understand that they all had children to pick up but then one of them turns round and says hubby is picking daughter up and she's going shopping!

AIBU to feel that because I'm childless I should be made to feel worthless.

OP posts:
lorelei9 · 16/03/2016 16:36

Mog, that is awful.

antiqueroadhoe · 18/03/2016 06:25

"If you don't like it find another job"???? Disgraceful.

Floisme · 18/03/2016 07:21

Flexible working is great when everyone puts in and everyone takes out. Unfortunately in some workplaces I've known, it means one group putting in and another group taking out.

Yes it's partly down to good management but it's also about showing some basic consideration towards your work mates.

If someone covers for you because you need to finish early then they are doing you a favour. So reciprocate. If you can't do a straight swop then volunteer for the lunchbreak nobody wants or for a task everyone hates. If you really can't do anything (which I doubt) at least make the tea and buy the biscuits.

Basically just have some fucking manners.

MidniteScribbler · 18/03/2016 09:14

I think that the child-free versus the parents is not really the issue here. The issue is the colleague who couldn't see past her shopping trip when someone was away sick, and someone else needed to go to a medical appointment. Her being a parent was irrelevant, she didn't need to pick up her child, she wanted to go shopping. Could she really not delay her shopping trip for half an hour to help out in what sounds like an unusual circumstance? Any reasonable human being would just hang around for another half hour if she didn't have anywhere else urgent to be.

angelos02 · 18/03/2016 09:34

I assume the woman that left to do her vital shopping never asks OP for a favour. She will get laughed at.

Pilgit · 18/03/2016 09:47

It's situations like this that give working parents a bad reputation. Late working should be shared across all people in the job. The fact that the childless do it the majority of the time is a really kind gesture. However, childless people have commitments and needs too. It is not unreasonable for accommodation to be made for them as well in the workplace. If I were the manager in this situation, the woman that admitted she was going shopping rather than on childcare duty would be getting a serious talk about commitment and team work - it works both ways.

This wasn't about having children or not, this was about colleagues not acting as a team and taking the piss. OP - I hope your condition improves and you get the support you need.

Cabrinha · 18/03/2016 10:06

It's not a kind gesture if you are paid to do it, it's in your contract, the other person is NOT contracted to do it - oh and you didn't actually do it.

Shopping woman didn't fancy the overtime.
OP didn't fancy the overtime.
Nobody worked it.

Shopping woman had no obligation to do it, and OP didn't even get stuck with it. Mountains, molehills.

lorelei9 · 18/03/2016 10:48

Cabrinha, this is the line that is cause for concern

"Our manager told us that one of us would have to stay till 6pm and all the parents said that it would have to be me"

this is not how any unforeseen stuff should be covered.

Cabrinha · 18/03/2016 10:57

But - unless I missed it, and I have looked! - the OP has never been back to say what people's contracts are.

If the parents are not contracted to work those hours, and OP has the contract that says "Mon/Tue til 18:00 and all other times hours as needed by business" then the parents are right - it should fall to her.

And she couldn't, so she didn't.

Now I'd be pretty fucked off with the parents if they were all whiny at me about it - but if they simply said "no, it'd need to be OP" to the boss, then fine.

I see this as an AIBU about colleagues behaviour, not about the employment policy.

Again, I looked but didn't see - has the OP come back to say whether she took the job on these terms, or whether over the years she's had it pushed on her as people have changed their contracts?

lorelei9 · 18/03/2016 11:04

no, OP hasn't said much
I do understand where she is coming from though
I would imagine, given the faffing she describes, that there is no clear policy, which is crap

and if there is no clear policy and even a parent who isn't picking up their child defaults to "Can't, have child" then the OP is right to be worried. Perhaps discrimination is not the correct word but I can see why she's used it - when parents automatically default to "you don't have kids, you do the OT" then there's a problem.

if you RTFT there's many examples of such problems.

lorelei9 · 18/03/2016 11:10

PS in the context of some AIBUs, I think it's a bit unfair to apply "mountain, molehill" to this one.

With all issues on employment, it's a good plan to tackle them before they get out of hand.

Cabrinha · 18/03/2016 11:40

I have actually said mountain/molehill twice on here - but the first time I did acknowledge that there were some really serious problems shared on the thread.

I just think that as OP appears to not be coming back, and as very little info was actually given, that it's a mountain for people to keep agreeing how unfair it is on the OP.

When what happened was, someone was sick, someone who doesn't work til 18:00 ever said that the one who does 2x per week would have to, she couldn't, so nobody was forced to.

I'm just not seeing the big issue with that!

No axe to grind... have child, have never asked a colleague to cover me, and just this morning covered a telco for a colleague at home with sick toddler.

I'm curious how this set up came about. It is quite possible that OP was recruited into a team where others already had those fixed hours. In which case, fixing the problem means the firm being clear at interview and trying to weed out people who don't like the contract they agreed to.

JizzyStradlin · 18/03/2016 11:44

Exactly cabrinha. There's nothing here to suggest OP has been treated unfairly at all, much less because of her childfree status. All the comments about giving working parents a bad name et al are ridiculous when we know so little about the contractual arrangements here.

Also, why does this follow?

Late working should be shared across all people in the job.

I have a very niche skillset which, since becoming a parent, I've used to work the precise hours I wish. I'll do stuff from home, but every employer I've had has been made aware that I'm available these hours or not at all. They choose Option A, because there aren't enough of people like me to go around. Also I take the precaution of being reasonably conservative in my salary requirements. Actually in a few of the roles I've done, I've been either a one woman departments or in charge, but the times I've been in a team, my hours were part of the package I negotiated. An equal share in any late working requirements wasn't an option I was prepared or able to entertain, so my in demand skillset would simply have been removed from the market for a few years. To nobody's advantage. Why, exactly, shouldn't those of us who are able negotiate the best deal we can with an employer?

And I'd be pretty fucking unimpressed with a chat about commitment to the job if I wouldn't postpone a shopping trip for emergency cover, too. Kids or not. You're paid to manage, you fucking do it!

Cabrinha · 18/03/2016 12:03

We talk a lot about this at my place - that you don't know what someone else's work/life balance is, or their needs - it's different.

I'm the kind of person who is not out the door at 17:30 anyway - I'd be biting their hands off to do the 18:00 every time my daughter was at her dad's, and then saving up the time in lieu to come in at 10:30 next week when I want to watch her Easter bonnet parade! If I worked with the OP and always finished at 17:30 because of school club pick up (none round her finish later than 18:00) I'd actually be jealous of the OP - who actually has a more flexible deal than the fixed time finishers with no option to build in some flexi!

JizzyStradlin · 18/03/2016 12:16

Well exactly. I'm not saying OP couldn't possibly be getting screwed over here, but this isn't even one of those arrangements where one gig is clearly worse than another. Plenty of people would prefer the later finish either to get more hours or to start later. Hell, some parents like a late start, late finish so they can do the morning school run. It's not immediately obvious that the 5pm finish is the intrinsically more favourable arrangement here. If they all start at the same time, get the same breaks, the same wage and bring the same level of experience to the job but only the non-parents are expected to work the longer hours then yes, that would clearly be a problem. But it's not what's happened here.

simonettavespucci · 18/03/2016 12:21

I kind of agree with the mountain/molehill diagnosis, in this particular case, as the OP did leave at 5.30 and also the manager agreed for her to leave even earlier (4.30) when she has medical appointments in the future. So there seems to be some flexibility all round.

However I'm guessing that the sense of discrimination comes from the way it was discussed/treated in the office - i.e., all the 5.30 mothers just assumed it wasn't their problem, even though one of them could, in fact, have covered it, and the manager only talked to the 6.00 staff about the problem. In a way, that seems reasonable - if you have some staff who sometimes work late, you might well ask them first, as they are perhaps more likely to be able to do it, but I can see that not asking the other staff at all would make it seem less of a team effort. And we don't know the actual conversations had etc.

Original poster
rosieposie2 · 19/03/2016 15:45

Cabrinha - all staff have the same contract that states the hours that you work per week and that you have to be available for the needs of the business. The manager does the rota (not very well most of the time we sort it ourselves to cover holidays)

I wasn't recruited into a team where everyone had fixed hours, Ive been in the team the longest. I have no problem with the contract I have, Im more than happy to do the hours.

The parents expecting me to do it pissed me off, the manager had gone home so no one to sort it out. The next day he was asked me why I didn't work till 6, which I replied I had asked to finish early(for appointment), he asked John too but never asked the others.

OP posts:
ABitSensible · 19/03/2016 16:06

AIBU to feel that because I'm childless I should be made to feel worthless.
That part is unreasonable.

You also dont seem to know that people who claim tax credits cannot work extra hours, and no employer has the right to force anyone to work overtime as a result.

Learn your rights as an employee and stop blaming your colleagues for Managements failings.

Original poster
rosieposie2 · 19/03/2016 16:08

I claim tax credits

OP posts:
ABitSensible · 19/03/2016 16:09

So contact ACAS and find out how to deal with this issue in future;

www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1410

Cabrinha · 19/03/2016 17:05

Fair enough that your colleagues pissed you off but frankly if that made you think that childless = worthless you need therapy!

Original poster
rosieposie2 · 19/03/2016 17:15

Carbinha - i shouldn't have put that. I was just having a bad few days and the slightest little thing would of probably made me feel worthless.

OP posts:
lorelei9 · 19/03/2016 18:04

Goodness
Never seen someone get such an inquisition over the innocent phrasing

OP, I took it to mean that you felt your colleagues thought you were worth less consideration on account of not having childcare.

Tbh I think that's how many posters intrepreted it. I'm childfree and I didn't think there was anything to take umbrage at in the OP!

Hopefully your manager will sort something sensible.

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