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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to feel discriminated at work for not having children

198 replies

rosieposie2 · 14/03/2016 20:38

Don't get me wrong I have a lot of respect for working mothers/fathers but recently in work have been feeling discriminated against.

There are 6 people in my department, 3 mothers, 1 father (John) and myself and another(Sue) without a child. Three of us at work take it in turns to work till 6 (the 3 mothers can't as they have children to pick up from nursery).

Last Thursday I asked to leave at 5.30pm as I had an appointment, Sue was rota'd to work till 6 but phoned in sick and John couldn't because he had to look after his children. Our manager told us that one of us would have to stay till 6pm and all the parents said that it would have to be me.

I understand that they all had children to pick up but then one of them turns round and says hubby is picking daughter up and she's going shopping!

AIBU to feel that because I'm childless I should be made to feel worthless.

OP posts:
ihatebikerides · 14/03/2016 21:43

Missing important team meetings because they have been scheduled for non working days.

Depends how many part-timers there are who would want to attend the meeting. We have loads, who all work different combinations of days. There's no one day when everyone's in, and it's not viable to keep changing the day they're held either.

problembottom · 14/03/2016 21:43

I used to have this at my old job. One woman with kids used to go home at 5pm every day. If she hadn't finished her work, one of the rest of us was made to stay late and do it. Worst of all there was never any acknowledgement by bosses we had contributed to her work, it was a thankless task.

And my childless flatmate and I got told we had to work Christmas week, which included Christmas Eve, Christmas Day and Boxing Day, because we didn't have kids. We bloody love Christmas and were most put out. It bred a lot of resentment.

AlleyCatandRastaMouse · 14/03/2016 21:44

i don't think anyone's saying it's a bad thing that parents can work flexibly, just that flexible working should be equally available to everyone else too.

But non parents cannot get maternity leave or paternity leave or parental leave so there is inequity there recognising that children need time with their parents. It is nice to think that this could be a completely balanced offering but it probably cannot. It of course is recognised that this cannot continue forever just because you have children but small children absolutely need their parents and workplaces who want to attract the brightest and best talent need to recognise and adapt to that reality.

soapboxqueen · 14/03/2016 21:45

Sorry but I think the 'parent' bit is a red herring.

A business /section manager hasn't planned ahead or begun contingency plans due to being short staffed. Then expects staff to work it out themselves when one employee needs to be at a medical appointment eg the manager couldn't be bothered to do their job. Therefore allowing bullying staff members, who have no authority to do so, to deny time for said medical appointment.

Parents and carers do need a greater level of flexibility more often than most other members of staff. Some of which is provided for in law. However, this should be properly planned for, not cobbled together at the last moment and covered by staff who don't have a trump card to get out of it.

Runner05 · 14/03/2016 21:48

The way I read this is the three female parents are supposed to work until 5:30. OP, John and Sue work to 6:00 on a rota basis and are either paid extra for the additional time or get time back on other days.

The issue here seems to be that Sue was ill and the manager hadn't ensured there is enough cover if someone is off.
I wouldn't expect the three women who finish at 5:30 to just change at a moments notice as it's generally understood that they don't work past 5:30 anyway. The fact that OP and John were unavailable in this instance is unfortunate but really the managers fault (if it's important to cover to 6 then 2 people should be planned to stay to that time)
I don't necessarily think this is a case of someone without kids being penalised, I think it's a case of bad management planning meaning there was no backup plan to cover sickness.

lorelei9 · 14/03/2016 21:50

OP
Yes it is discrimination and you should speak up
I once worked in a place that woukd issue rules about attendance at certain eveung things as being mandatory for all unless they had children!

When I complained they said it was only fair. Luckily some parents backed me up.

SilverMachine · 14/03/2016 21:54

Soapboxqueen speaks a lot of sense. This situation is a result of poor management.

Cabrinha · 14/03/2016 21:56

Tbh I'd need to understand the history before judging.

Scenario 1: those mothers were all working there before you and had - by agreement with the manager - opted out of 17:30-18:00 cover. You were recruited with 2 later mentioned. Then - suck it up, they agreed hours with existing team members then recruited accordingly.

  1. You all used to do 1 late in 6, then one by one it changed until you got more and your line manager never spoke to you about it... problem!

I don't think it's inherently unfair to set different hours for some staff. Plenty of people would happily work til 18:00 (it's hardly unsociable hours!) and enjoy the extra money or chance to have a long lunch on another day, perhaps.

For the working parents, in some areas it's impossible to get a nursery that opens after 18:00 (nowhere near me does) and they may really want a nursery over a childminder (I did).

Even your woman who was going shopping... So what? She doesn't work til 18:00.

I note that in the end it went uncovered - so you weren't forced to work.

How did the team set up come about?

Cabrinha · 14/03/2016 21:58

Btw: are the other 2 unhappy with the late finish?
You could always approach your manager and say that next time there's reason to recruit, could she consider recruiting a 09:30-18:00 person.

NeedsAsockamnesty · 14/03/2016 22:00

Unless I have misunderstood your posts, all the people you are complaining about were not actually on the rota to work past 5:30,so they were not finishing early they were finishing on time.

NightWanderer · 14/03/2016 22:05

I agree with Runner actually. The woman who was going shopping was scheduled to finish at 5.30pm and was asked to work overtime at short notice and declined. That's her business.

You have a medical condition that means that you will have to leave early sometimes. You need to discuss that with your manager and ensure they understand the situation so they can arrange cover for you.

It isn't really your business why your coworkers can or can't work overtime, this you and your hours and whether you can fulfil them or not.

JessicasElephant · 14/03/2016 22:11

Completely unreasonable of your manager to say one of you had to work later. If there was no contingency plan in place the manager should work later (assuming it is essential).

Also, very unreasonable for the others to try to bully you in to staying just because you don't have children.

Not sure it counts as discrimination, as I think there has to be some reasonable adjustments to make allowances for caring responsibilities (I'm child free by choice btw). But it seems in this instance the assumption was that your appointment was less important than what your colleagues had to do - that'd really rankle with me.

BerylStreep · 14/03/2016 22:14

I spent years working on Christmas eve, christmas day etc because I didn't have DC. Now I do, I expect a little flexibility in return.

Sorry to hear about your cat Sad

Permanentlyexhausted · 14/03/2016 22:19

This situation doesn't seem fair on the OP but blaming the other members of the team is a red herring. The fault lies firmly with the manager(s) who have allowed a situation to arise where they don't have enough staff to cover the core working hours. This needs to be discussed with other members of the team and management. Is it necessary for work to continue until 6pm or would it be possible for office hours to be changed?

lorelei9 · 14/03/2016 22:20

I should add, I agree it's a very poor set up generally. However, the main thing I felt from your post is that you are viewed as a default to cover till 6pm because of not having kids. The shopping woman is another reason proper systems should be in place, otherwise, hell, I could claim to be unable to stay due to picking up a child Grin

Shutthatdoor · 14/03/2016 22:22

I spent years working on Christmas eve, christmas day etc because I didn't have DC. Now I do, I expect a little flexibility in return.

What about those that never have DC should they always do them until they retire?

Cabrinha · 14/03/2016 22:29

Just on the women leaving for picking up kids vs your appointment...
Seems like this all happened on the day, yes?
You hadn't needed to book to leave at 17:30 because it was Thu, and you do the lates on Tue/Wed.
You were only in the frame because Sue was sick.

There is a possibility that your appointment was flexible.
All my local nurseries close at 18:00.
Maybe one of the mothers could have called a friend / parent / husband to pick up instead - but can be hard at short notice.
Your appointment might have been easier to move.

You had every right to say no - and you did.
The woman who wanted to go shopping also had the right to say no - and she did.

So I'm not really seeing the issue here. As I said in a PP, I'd want to understand what the agreement is at work and how long it's been in place.

Viviennemary · 14/03/2016 22:30

That sounds extremely unfair. I'm afraid I don't agree with flexible working if it means other people are overburdened because people (men or women) with children don't do their share. Having children doesn't exempt you from taking a turn. You should look around for another job or speak to your manager and say you are not happy with the set up as it is.

Cabrinha · 14/03/2016 22:51

How is the OP overburdened?
She was asked to cover for a sick colleague, she said no, she didn't cover.

Fair enough that she was annoyed that shopping mother just said "you'll have to do it". But nobody actually made the OP work!

HelenaDove · 15/03/2016 02:02

Ive been seeing on other threads (ones about the NHS) how ppl should pay if they miss any appointment.

I dont agree with this because too many ppl are in situations like the OPs Why should they pay for a missed appointment thats been missed through no fault of their own
either due to bad management or entitled colleugues.

bessiebumptious2 · 15/03/2016 02:46

If women stayed at home instead of going out to work, this issue wouldn't occur.

Bloody women, taking all the jobs...

TattyCat · 15/03/2016 02:47
Grin
curren · 15/03/2016 05:16

Flexible working is great. But not when people use having kids as an excuse (shopping woman) to get out of stuff.

This is the main issue with flexible working. It's often given at the detriment of other staff who don't get a say.

In my last job everyone had to work 3 bank holidays a year. Even those on flexible working. I never worked Christmas but always worked late New Year's Eve and Early news years day. Which worked well as we had a lot of young people who preferred that off. They never once were short of people offering to work Christmas so it worked well.

The attitude of 'you will have to do it' just sucks and that is extremely shitty of her to try and force you to do it.

heron98 · 15/03/2016 06:21

YANBU. I recently asked to reduce my hours by two days a month. I was told no. However there are 17 other people in my office who work much more part time and they all have children.
I was told you can do whatever hours you want when you return from maternity. Great. A good policy. But what about the rest of us?

lavenderdoilly · 15/03/2016 06:33

You are not part of your colleagues' childcare arrangements. I used to hate this when childless. Not now but am very careful not to use colleagues without children in this way. It is the employer's responsibility to sort it out. Not just about children; also about time off needed caring for parents etc. YANBU for being pissed off.