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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not understand how people can justify it

667 replies

ijustdontunderstand · 14/03/2016 18:16

Okay, not a bun fight I just want to understand how those who vote Tory can think the cuts to disability benefits are OK.

This is NOT saying if you vote Tory you're a bad person, at all, I just want to understand. Will you vote them in again knowing?

OP posts:
lorelei9 · 14/03/2016 20:13

OP
Thanks for reminding me
My local MP is generally quite good but having looked a the list of voting on this, I'm saddened to see they've voted for it
I will email. Picking on the most vulnerable, ugh.

PageStillNotFound404 · 14/03/2016 20:14

I don't know who you think you're replying to, Catsvworld, but I haven't mentioned racism anywhere. My post with the time stamps you've quoted was a response to curren about the Tories' financial policies while in opposition in 2008.

PausingFlatly · 14/03/2016 20:16

whilst spending on the disabled has apparently increased,

Where on earth did you get that? I'd be really interested to know.

Because every single change I've seen to disability provision has been a cut in overall spending. Eg PIP was brought in explicitly to cut DLA by 20% (as usual they renamed the benefit when cutting it). Maria Miller admitted in this in Parliament in 2010.

Then there was the closure of the Independent Living Fund. And the huge cuts to social care provided by local councils, when central government funding was cut.

Disabled people have been hit by bedroom tax despite headlines claiming they're exempt (nope, only people on DLA/PIP are exempt, not those on ESA whom even ATOS agreed were unable to work because of disability).

In fact, in 2010, the Independent calculated that £9.2bn of support was scheduled be cut from disabled people by 2015.
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/disabled-people-to-lose-1639bn-from-cuts-2101827.html

And that was before the cuts of £1.2bn announced to PIP this week.

So I'm astonished that anyone has been claiming more money is being spent on the disabled.

PAtoDP · 14/03/2016 20:17

Labour spend money at a lower pace than the Tories, and they spend it with social conscience.

The Tories blow it all on their banker / multinational / corrupt mates and the rest of us suffer.

PAtoDP · 14/03/2016 20:17

Labour will get my vote because they are responsible. Tories are selfish.

CauliflowerBalti · 14/03/2016 20:18

It was me she should have replied to, not you PSNF404. I could go on - at some length - about the fact that immigrants to the UK (from both within and outside of the EU) contribute more to the UK economy than native born British citizens, and take less from the welfare state.

But I fear it would be wasting my energy.

I don't believe in uncontrolled immigration, or limitless public spending. I believe in making decisions based on facts.

eyebrowse · 14/03/2016 20:21

Jeremy Corbyn separated from his then wife because he disagreed so strongly about grammar schools.

The tories are wrong on benefits. If poorer people have extra money they spend it and so it helps the economy. If richer people are given extra money they save it and so it does not help the economy.

Intelligent people vote tory when they are rich and want money for themselves. High intelligence is not the same as high levels of kindness

PAtoDP · 14/03/2016 20:25

Idiots vote Tory too, eye.

Scarriff · 14/03/2016 20:28

My babysitter's husband hasn't worked since he was a young man. Bad back. His wife sticks to a part time job so they are eligible fo full council tax rebate and the additional benefits that come with that. She does a bit of cleaning and babysitting for cash and the disabled husband a bit of decorating from time to time. Their only daughter now has two small children whose fathers arent interested in contributing. On advice her parents evicted her from their 4 bedroomed home and she has a rather attractive flat a few streets away. She doesn't plan to get a job. All of them are nice people. They just don't see why they should work more than they do. 'Tax the bankers' they say gleefully. Should the father's disability payments have been cut 20 years ago? You betcha.

JellyBellyKelly · 14/03/2016 20:29

Not RTFT a but in answer to the OP?

Because my DM who has an acute (not chronic) mental health condition is far better off under the Tories/PIPs than she ever was on DLA or under Labour.

peggyundercrackers · 14/03/2016 20:31

Since when have labour been responsible? Tony Blair and Gordon brown were really responsible when they run the country during their last stint weren't they...

peggyundercrackers · 14/03/2016 20:32

When tories vote through their policies I guess no other MPs from other parties vote for the same policies do they Hmm

Tron123 · 14/03/2016 20:40

The cuts are across all services - clearly some areas have been affected more than others. I do belive that the system of benefits has not worked as it should. Some of the care allowances given are not needed and in those cases they should be cut and redirected. There are plenty of services under threat and all aspects of government spending need to be looked T.

lighteningirl · 14/03/2016 20:45

I would vote for any of the parties if it meant keeping Labour out they crippled this country and I can't believe anyone over the age of twenty five would knowing put them in power again.

LuisSuarezTeeth · 14/03/2016 20:48

Some of the care allowances given are not needed and in those cases they should be cut and redirected.

Which?

theycallmemellojello · 14/03/2016 20:48

The basic argument is that high public spending puts the country at risk of far greater and more widespread hardship than is occasioned by managed cuts in case there is another financial crisis. Not something I buy into myself, but thinking it is correct doesn't make you horrible.

cleaty · 14/03/2016 20:50

I did not vote Conservative.

Disabled people are being hammered, but I do support some reform to disabled benefits.

People with mental health issues were generally not helped by receiving more money than they would have received if working. It was a disincentive to getting better.

DinosaursRoar · 14/03/2016 20:50

right - in simple terms, because it doesn't matter enough to them.

All aspects of our society are political to some extent. Of those, different people will have different orders of importance for each issue. Some while very important to me/others, are issues generally all major parties are agreed on (like say, democracy, woman having the vote, the rule of law), so aren't decision making issues between the parties. Everything that's not exactly agreed on between parties will have different 'weight' of importance to each voter, effectively putting them in order and the top ones will be what people decide on.

If you recieve or know someone who receives disability benefits, then that issue will be pretty high up your political issue priority list, for those who don't, it is unlikely to be the key issue.

You said how does anyone think it's ok - it's 'ok' because something else or (more likely) several other things are more important when deciding who should be running the country and deciding over all the political issues.

I bet many people on here who have been effected by the cuts have a pile of issues they don't give a rats arse about, although the decisions taken by the government in those areas could have massive ramifications for other people's lives, but as you aren't effected or don't know anyone effected, it's not all that high up your list of reasons to pick one party over another - or even if you do care about it, it's not something you care enough about to be the deciding factor in who to vote for - great if your chosen party also mirrors your views on it, but won't swing you the other way.

LuisSuarezTeeth · 14/03/2016 20:51

Thinking it is correct does not make you horrible - thinking that the manner in which it is being done DOES.

longjumping · 14/03/2016 20:52

I am a Tory voter and I support the cuts. For too long some people have taken benefits for granted as if they are a wage. I think individuals and families must take responsibility for themselves. I personally know a lot( yes a lot) of people who refuse overtime or have reduced their hours in order to claim benefits. There was a poster on here yesterday saying she. Had been offered 5 extra hours work a week but she didn't know whether to take it as it might affect her benefits....this is wrong. People who can work should work and support themselves. People should remember that this is not free money....it is money that other people have worked hard for and paid tax on. Yes, I will vote Tory again.
I am only sorry t he Lords overturned the cuts to tax credits.
My niece's DH regularly refuses overtime because it will cut their benefits. I have 2 friends who have actually reduced their working hours so they can claim benefits. It was getting to the stage where only mugs worked!

TeenAndTween · 14/03/2016 20:53

It is possible to vote for a party and not believe everything they do is correct. You go for the party that is 'best fit' for your beliefs.

LuisSuarezTeeth · 14/03/2016 20:54

This is about disability benefits longjumping

Did you not read the OP?

Tilliebean · 14/03/2016 20:54

I've worked with people on benefits (Work Programme and Pathways to Work before that) for years and have found the changes over the last 5 years heartbreaking. I used to see people on ESA who were ready for help, now only the most ill (read- need years of intensive support) make it through those assessments. They just aren't ready for the help we offer.
The assessments are criminal as far as I am concerned. They make people more ill and the rate at which they are overturned is shocking. They'd probably save more money overhauling those assessments then cutting benefits.
The purpose of the ESA WRAG group (those deemed ill but capable of work) was to give them specialised support to find sustainable work, by denying people that they will end up on JSA getting sanctioned because they cannot do what is being asked. Happens all the time.
Basically I'm leaving my job because I don't believe I'll be allowed to keep offering appropriate support. I spend more time helping people deal with the DWP then I do helping them break down their barriers to work.

coffeeisnectar · 14/03/2016 20:55

feeling sick at your post Longjumping.

I worked for over 20 years full time, paying tax. My DP has served his country, worked over 40 years paying tax. Yet you begrudge us the ESA we claimed for two years? Do you begrudge me my PIP payment or do you think I should be stuck in the house 24/7 and not able to ever go out?

fucks sake.

lorelei9 · 14/03/2016 20:55

Jelly, I realise you might not want to talk mire about this but if you do, I'd be interested to hear it so I have more facts.