To not understand how people can justify it

[ijustdontunderstand]

Okay, not a bun fight I just want to understand how those who vote Tory can think the cuts to disability benefits are OK.

This is NOT saying if you vote Tory you're a bad person, at all, I just want to understand. Will you vote them in again knowing?

It's easy to think that the disabled and the financially less well off are the only ones getting squeezed, but there are so many ways in which everybody is getting squeezed. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but the changes to pensions are a minefield. DH is trying to get his head around it at the moment. They've changed it so that your tax-free amount you can put in your pension per year is £10k instead of up to £40k (which, granted, is a lot to put in your pension each year). You can take it as salary, but you'll get taxed on that as well. Fair enough, but it is a massive change that doesn't really incentivise people to save at all.

There is an assumption that higher earners find all sorts of tricks to pay less tax but in reality, there is no legal way of getting out of it (nor should there be). I agree corporation tax is a different kettle of fish.

They are still finding ways to squeeze absolutely everybody, because they have to. Unfortunately the changes mean that some people are getting squeezed when there was not a lot left to squeeze.

I'm not a fan of the bedroom tax, and whilst spending on the disabled has apparently increased, this does not result in more money in their pockets.

I'm really not sure of the answer, but I can't vote labour yet. I really wish Labour could get a leader and a manifesto I could get on board with as it would be nice to feel there were a better option. At the moment I don't.

Pagestill when you add in having rent paid and other associated costs it was her who said that to me, can't say I'm an expert.

Can someone fill me in on how labour fuck up the country every time they get in? This is a genuine question. I keep hearing it, but also keep hearing that they're just picking up a mess left by the Tories too.

Because the system is so abused

Can people actually give stats about the abuse though?
Because the ones I ahve is showing that 70% of the appeals are actually overturned, which is A LOT of people who have been told they could work and actually can't.
And I suspect the stats we have are the numbers of people rejected, not counting the ones that are overturned later on....

labour havent been in power for a long time yet everything is still their fault. if the Tories imposed taxes on their rich mates then maybe we wouldn't be on the brink of losing the NHS. Ive always voted labour and always will despite the massive arse that is/was Blair.

I've never voted for the Tories and I will never will. Voting for them is either a vote for greed and selfishness or a stupidity vote, plain and simple. The Conservatives don't care about society or protecting the most vulnerable, they never have and they never will.

I think the amount of people abusing the system is tiny and exaggerated by the media. There are are far more people eligible to claim benefits who don't claim. Billions go unclaimed.

As for whether people who are disabled can work or not, it depends a lot of what sort of illnesses they have though.

I have ME, I work. I don't need any help because I'm lucky that
1- I can work for myself so set hours that suits me, move my workload around etc... Depending on how I feel. If I was employed, I wouldn't be able to do that and would struggle to work at all (I'm currently working a max of 15hours a week...)
2- I'm qualified enough that the work I do is relatively well paid which means I do earn something at the end of the week. This would not be the case if I was working MW (and then I would need the help of benefits to manage)

I know someone who is registered blind and she works full time.

And then I know someone with MH that can't go out of the house.

Disabled doesn't mean unable to work but nor does it mean that all disabled/ill people can work.....

I have never voted Tory although agree with them on some issues. As someone else said, for a lot of people benefits are either something they never even think about, so they voted Conservative for other reasons; or they resent them so did it to vote in opposition to Labour. I would never have based my voting decision on one thing and it definitely wouldn't have been based on benefits when I have never been in receipt of any. Had I voted Tory I would have "justified it" as you say by saying I felt I had voted for the most financially responsible party.

I will say though that with regards to labelling very ill people fit for work, I don't know where the Tories think all these jobs for them are supposed to come from.

IdealWeather, the most recent set of figures I can find released by the DWP (for financial year 2013-14) is that 0.7% of expenditure, or £1.2bn, was paid out in fraudulent claims. 1.3%, or £2.2bn, was overpaid in error. 0.9% (£1.5bn) was underpaid.

Even allowing for the actual fraud rate to be twice as bad as officially recorded, that would be 1.4% of the total benefit bill - about the same as is paid out in official cock-ups.

No party ever satisfies one person, you pick the one you most agree with.

If people used the benefit system only when no other choice then no cuts would have been needed. What we have though is a system that allows people to choose them as a lifestyle. Labour introduced tax credits and it was downhill from there. People suddenly stopped working, looked at calculators on line for min hours most net gain in benefits and had children they had no intention of supporting.

The untold damage on this generation will be huge from that and for that reason alone I'd never vote labour again. The tories are trying to bring back a work ethic and stop people choosing to rely on the state. I don't agree with every choice and some could have been harsher (cb scrapped for all not some).

By "expenditure" I should clarify the percentages relate to welfare budget expenditure, not total government expenditure.

It's tricky, isn't it? I vote conservative, always have but it's never an ill educated vote. I read every manifesto (I even waded through the first UKIP one which was War and Peace of horseshit) and base my vote on the party that best represents my views. Unfortunately, no party will ever represent my views completely so the choice is to vote for the party that represents more of them than any other or not vote at all. I don't trust Labour with the economy and that is a huge thing for me. The Lib Dems had some good-ish ideas but even the ones they were able to implement they fucked in spades and then blamed the conservatives (who blamed the lib Dems for everything post the coalition!).

It isn't about one policy, or one section of society, I have tried to find the balance and for me that was the conservatives. I'm actually going to go as far as to say that, in the main, I think they are doing a good job....with the distinct exception of Jeremy Hunt.

Jeremy Corbyn seems like a very nice chap and I admire his principles, but I'm afraid, in my view, he is deluded. Nobody wants austerity, but if you have no money, you can't spend it.

Other opinions are available and to save a million people posting it I know I am Tory voting scum and I should burn in hell etc etc

To people that say benefit fraud, well it is not actually a huge issue, its something silly like 2% that commit fraud, where as corporate tax???? much higher!!!!!

And those who voted for Blair, and his disastrous immigration policy, meaning that services were pulled and councils had to cut budgets to accommodate thousands of new comers, how do you feel about that? Will you be voting for Labour again? The children thrown under a bus, the elderly etc. The really poor, who then had thousands of other really poor people putting a strain on services meant for them....

Do you think the need for food banks suddenly occurred when cameron took power? One minuet families had enough then suddenly they woke up un able to feed themselves?

Or do you think it was more gradual decline, that occurred under the labour government and its disastrous policies.

I voted for Blair, ashamed to admit.

I may even vote Labour again but at least I am not stupid enough to think Labour protects the vulnerable and needy, because they didn't, they shat on them.

I really fail to see how my 16 year old severely disabled daughter is abusing the system.
The question isn't why did you vote for them, the question is why isn't everyone accountable for making incredibly vulnerable people's lives more difficult and utterly miserable? I don't know anyone who supports these cuts

Labour did not mess up the economy. Definitively - they did not. You can dislike them and Corbyn all you like, you can vote for whoever you choose, but do not do this based on lies and misinformation. They did NOT run up huge debts.

George Osborne has borrowed more in 3 years than the previous Labour government did in 13 (based on ONS figures): www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/11/21/uk-borrowing-_n_4316084.html

The coalition government amassed more debt than all Labour parties combined since 1900: www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2014/06/17/the-coalition-will-leave-more-debt-than-all-labour-governmen

The former Governor of the Bank Of England states that Labour's mismanagement was not a contributory factor in the financial crash:
www.theguardian.com/business/2014/dec/29/labour-government-not-responsible-crash-bank-england-governor-mervyn-king

www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/the-myth-excessive-government-borrowing-got-us-into-this-mess-8601390.html

I hate seeing lies being repeated as truth. This period of austerity is ideological. You may agree with the ideology and that is fine and up to you - but it is NOT financially driven.

Never have voted for them and never will.

I am one of those disabled people,I worked all my life from the age of 16 and I worked whilst pregnant and I continued to work when I became a single Mum whilst pregnant with my 4th DC and my 3rd DC is disabled.

I can't work anymore,I have brain damage and the illneses I have are killing me.
So as far as I'm concerned the tosser that is David Cameron can Fuck Off!

He's a male version of bloody Maggie Thatcher and she helped ruin this country and he's continuing her work!

Pretty sure it was the bankers who fucked the economy...

Hmmm. It seems from this thread everyone is voting in self interest. Not just conservative voters.

To answer to OP, and not admitting which way I vote .....

I don't think I've ever voted and 100% fully supported every word and nuance of every pledge and policy of the party.
I just don't believe it's so simple as "Vote Tory = I support removing benefits from disabled people". {insert other party and headline policy as applicable}.

I'm a nice person, of course I don't want to see some of the most vulnerable in society suffer even more (using the benefit cut example) but maybe I think the alternative party (whether as local MP, or government) is a worse choice overall. Maybe I think all the rest of the {Tory} party policies are "good enough" to balance out the ones I don't agree with or support. Maybe it's tactical - I'm in Scotland, I know of many who do not support SNP so will vote for whoever they think is most likely to beat / challenge SNP, with the view that "anyone" is better than SNP. In my own constituency, that was the Conservative candidate.

Labour did not mess up the economy. Definitively - they did not. You can dislike them and Corbyn all you like, you can vote for whoever you choose, but do not do this based on lies and misinformation. They did NOT run up huge debts.

That's not quite true.

Gordon brown made massive mistakes because "We didn't understand just how entangled things were."

That's a quote from Gordon Brown. Who was the PM an ex chancellor.

If my dh could predict what was going to happen (he is a chef not a financial expert) in January 2008, why did Gordon Brown not see it coming and not understand the implications? Why did none of his ministers?

It wasn't entirely his fault. But I don't get how the whole party didn't see it coming. It's lies or incompetence or both.

The problem as i see it is that when we vote we are casting a vote for someone to represent our local area as well as for a government to run the country as a whole.
Where I live the options were a good Tory candidate, been the MP for years, active in the area and a proven choice, the labour option was not an option, he looked like he was still at school (labour know they won't win here so they field young candidates to give them a go) The Lib Dem bloke lived on the other side of London - what does he care about my local schools/housing ect?
The Tory was, on paper, the only good choice.

All that said I couldn't bring myself to do it so I voted green (knowing full well that in this area it was a vote that wouldn't count)

throughthickandthin i have never voted in my own self interest. bit of a sweeping generalisation.

Agree with AStreetCar!