To not understand how people can justify it

[ijustdontunderstand]

Okay, not a bun fight I just want to understand how those who vote Tory can think the cuts to disability benefits are OK.

This is NOT saying if you vote Tory you're a bad person, at all, I just want to understand. Will you vote them in again knowing?

The problem as i see it is that when we vote we are casting a vote for someone to represent our local area as well as for a government to run the country as a whole.

I don't like this either. Voting Ed Balls in was bad for my local area. But you can't vote for your local mp and then your leading party.

My sister is a tory through-and-through. She canvassed for them at the last election and stood as a tory councillor a few years ago.

She is now panicking about possibly losing her motability car, ESA and being moved from DLA onto PIP..... oh the irony.

I imagine the number of people who are totally unable to do any sort of paid work is really very few.

I have 3 relatives who have some level of disability and are entitled to benefits. One has a full time, well paid job, one is completely unable to work and is very well looked after by the state, and one does not work but perhaps would be able to do some sort of work with some health implications. The last one is surely who benefit cuts are aiming to affect really, if they were slightly worse off then perhaps it makes more sense as a lifestyle choice to do some sort of paid work, despite there being health implications (MH issues).

I don't vote Tory, but this is not as black and White an issue as it is painted by some sections of the media. As a mainstream political party, it's difficult to argue that they aren't a credible option!

If there is no more money, why has Osborne agreed to fund a bridge with plant pots in London that has no clear purpose?

If there is no more money, when will there be enough money to cover basic services?

If there is no more money, eventually, isn't that the fault of the Tories, not Labour?

Many people have used the excuse of "no more money" to justify cuts, but its increasingly clear that the Tories would always have made these cuts because that is their ideology. Fair enough, we all have different opinions, but it would be good if they could be honest.

Dla and PiP are in work benefits
I think the problem is people don't understand what it's like to have an illness or disability and how difficult it is to qualify for pip and what the benefit is for! So what hope does anyone have.

*Gordon brown made massive mistakes because "We didn't understand just how entangled things were."

That's a quote from Gordon Brown. Who was the PM an ex chancellor.*

That would have been the interview he gave in 2011 referring back to 2008 - the point at which then-Shadow Chancellow George Osborne was arguing for more deregulation of the banking industry.

Fuck knows how much worse things would be now if he'd been in power then, eh?

I imagine the number of people who are totally unable to do any sort of paid work is really very few.

Then where are all the jobs that will cater for someone who can't work to a rota because some days they'll be okay and others they won't be able to get up?

Where are the employers who'll understand their employees calling in sick two days out of five week after week?

Who's going to employ someone who can sometimes do plenty of manual tasks but sometimes can barely even function, when even thinking hurts?

I'm sure you're right, the number of people unable to do any paid work is probably smaller than the number currently out of work - but rather than taking their money away and demonising them, maybe we should be focusing on more flexible working and ways of helping people into work that doesn't involve weekly schleps to see the judgemental twats at the jobcentre and constant useless courses, sanctions for attending job interviews and being forced to apply for outlandish, out-there jobs they have no chance of getting?

I imagine the number of people who are totally unable to do any sort of paid work is really very few.

Because employers are just falling over themselves to take on people who may need costly reasonable adjustments and/or increased managerial support, who have variable conditions meaning they may be capable of work one week but not the next...

My DH worked for 35 years until his condition deteriorated to the point he was medically retired. He hates no longer being able to make an economic contribution. If he could work, he would. But he can't. And he's far from unique.

Every time labour get in they spend all the fucking money like its going out of fashion and the Tory's have to some in like a strict parent and put rules in place

I will vote for them again

First red ed now Corbin not sure how else I am supposed to vote

That would have been the interview he gave in 2011 referring back to 2008 - the point at which then-Shadow Chancellow George Osborne was arguing for more deregulation of the banking industry.

I don't agree with GO on that. However that wasn't my point. My point was Gordon brown wasn't blameless

Catvsworld. That is not true. The opposite is true. Read the links further up the thread. George Osborne has borrowed more than every single Labour government combined since 1900.

That is what the Tory party has done. Borrowed more.

The narrative that Labour are feckless spendhappies and the Tory party is parsimonious and responsible is a lie.

You have to remember that a disproportionate number of voters are over fifty and remember the eighties when far less stringently tested disability benefits were cynically used by a coalition of claimants, job centre staff and the Thatcher government in a fudge to keep the headline unemployment figures down in a situation where there literally were no jobs available in some areas. Most of the working class men affected by those policies are now retired or dead, the employment environment is unrecognisable, as is the structure around disability benefit claims, but I reckon there's a lot of voters out there who when they hear "disability benefits" think of their mate's neighbour's uncle Dave who they were told by this bloke down the pub never let his "bad back" stop him being the top scorer for the Sunday league team in 1991.

Every time labour get in they spend all the fucking money like its going out of fashion and the Tory's have to some in like a strict parent and put rules in place

Can you explain how that equates with Osborne having borrowed more in six years than every other Labour chancellor put together?

I totally agree the amount of people who can do some paid work is miminal and the amount of people athe can do vountrly work is even less so

It's one thing not being able to get paid work because yu lack skill set or have a disability and employers are put off but I don't believe than many who are on the sick can't do any vlountry work at least

And I don't believe unless you have triplets or are fostering there is any reason why we should be paying single mums to sit at home

In 2010 I voted Tory - I was disgusted with Blair & Brown, plus Cameron was the only leader to even mention carers, and he promised to look after us because he 'understood what it was like'. yes, I fell for that bollocks. Fast forward 5 years and I will never, ever vote Tory again, they have destroyed my life.
I am an educated and qualified person who had to give up work to look after my educated and qualified DH. He will not get better, his degenerative conditions won't improve and add to that his severe personality disorder and I don't think many people would want to be sat next to him in work, even if he could make it out of the door. The extra stress these constant reviews cause is miserable to say the least, and the money does not allow for any luxury items, we exist on the basics of life. I want to work but nobody will be there to take care of DH, plus who will allow me time off for all of the appointments, medications, treatments etc? My carers allowance (£62 a week) is reduced by around £30 because its means tested and one of his benefits is Income Based. My DC however have all got a brilliant work ethic, even 14 yo DD works as many hours as possible because they all know and appreciate their (current) good health, although they all share a genetic degenerative condition which could well see them trying to claim benefits in years to come. None of us would ever have chosen this life. Tories have not only taken away money from us which used to go towards making life a little easier, but they have taken away our optimism and pride. Life is a constant struggle now, dreading each brown envelope that comes through the door because it will trigger another huge meltdown.
The Tories, and people who voted for them and will continue to do so have blood on their hands. Shame on you.

The Labour party weren't blameless. The article I linked to doesn't say that. It says that they weren't to blame.

I wasn't a fan of New Labour, btw. But the facts speak for themselves. I don't mind anyone voting for the Tory party if it's based on fact. Tories regurgitating the 'Labour are crap with money' lie really get my goat.

Sorry but I just don't here any of that from labour they want to let more immmergants in they want to get closer to the eu and they want to have a Greek style public sector eveyone one on 50k and retiring at 45 lol

The tories are trying to bring back a work ethic and stop people choosing to rely on the state

No Autumn they are seriously damaging the people least able to fight it. There is NO JUSTIFICATION for cutting ESA and PIP.

It's not the fault of the Tory voters it's the fault of the people who go "on the sick" when they could easily work they're just lazy or don't bother trying at interviews.

AStreetCar you have no idea. None at all. People like you disgust me.

I don't agree with GO on that. However that wasn't my point. My point was Gordon brown wasn't blameless

I'm not claiming he was. The point is that the crisis would quite probably have been even worse had the Tories been in power in 2008, given Osborne's publicly-stated would-be policies at the time.

Ah. Casual racism and ignorance, inability to look at the facts. I seeeee. As you were, catvsworld. As you were...

The labour loons currently want to disband the army and get rid of a nuclear war heads

And the fact he won't wear a poppy well boils my piss

And usual labour champagin socialist shit hate grammar school sends he own fucking kids there though

Funny labour leader kids attend grammar school while the Tory primister kids attend a state high school go figure

Give me the Tory's any day

People like you disgust me shame on you blood on their hands
Etc etc.

The Ops first words of her opening post Okay, not a bun fight....

But the same old, same old on MN. Always the same. Any discussion derailed at the first opportunity.

Very long term lurker here but I can't stop myself posting on this.
I have been on the higher rate mobility DLA for a while, l have been working the whole time.
Looking at the points system for PIP I will no longer qualify.

I am the type of person who generally doesn't sit down and worry about something that will happen in the unspecified future, but I am terrified. No other word for it.

It is not the loss of the money, or the car, it is that I will lose the blue badge. I realise I can apply to the council for assessment for this but I'm guessing the council will be stricter than the PIP assessment.

Then what? I cannot cope without it. I am in so much pain daily it takes all my strength not to scream at times. I am concentrating so much to put one foot in front of the other, to hide from my kids the agony I'm in I forget things, I left the car door open this evening for a good couple of hours this evening!

And when I do lose PIP what are they saying? Are they saying I have no right to call myself disabled? That all this effort is for nothing?

So when people say things like cuts need to be made they don't realise the effort it takes some of us just to keep going. This shit with PIP makes me want to just give up and stop but I have wonderful kids who deserve a long and happy life, they need their mum, so I don't even have that option anymore.

And FYI I'm not on DLA as a life style choice, it helps me fucking live!

PageStillNotFound404 Mon 14-Mar-16 20:05:57

Ah yes anyone mentioning immegarion branded a racist labour was brilliant at this tactic Trevor Phillips squarely blames labour for the race issues we have today

Btw I am not white and am of African decent I have experienced racial issues first hand have you

Being worried about immergation dose not =racism

ThroughThick it's the usual goaders that bring it down - not the ones who challenge them.