To not understand how people can justify it

[ijustdontunderstand]

Okay, not a bun fight I just want to understand how those who vote Tory can think the cuts to disability benefits are OK.

This is NOT saying if you vote Tory you're a bad person, at all, I just want to understand. Will you vote them in again knowing?

&Osborne has borrowed more money than any Labour Chancellor. The benefits of the growing economy are not being felt by the majority but by the wealthy few and the weakest in our society are paying for this largesse

^ This

Some time ago reading internet boards I used to wonder how it is that so many working class people do not have a social conscience. But I now believe UK is inherently right wing and this is the reality of it. I do partly blame Labour for the ineffectual leaders/public speakers they drag out. Media spin is everything in politics now and they have to combat that, not aim to keep the middle ground and not make waves. The working man voting Tory, tho.. still find that so odd

"the party that best manage the economy. That is actually the Labour Party"^
It is a fact, not an opinion. There have been more financial crises and greater borrowing under Tory governments.

The deficit myth

Useful fact finding site

People have had to vote Tory as Labour keep fielding ridiculous leaders.

I absolutely hate Cameron, think he's a tosser. but would vote for anyone other than Corbyn who I think is a dangerous tosser.

Bleary, I do hope you're being ironic.

What we are desperately lacking is a good party to represent the centre. Corbyn is too left for many previous labour voters and tories too right/won't vote out of principle.

I don't vote labour because I have never been able to stand their policies and practices and due to my upbringing am not a fan of socialism. But the tory cuts are getting a bit much now for me.

I voted lib dem, I wouldn't vote labour.

Ah Bleary, if you could actually explain your views you might be a decent poster, until then you're just another moron.

Labour's ridiculous candidates is funny too. Corbyn may not be as urbane as Cameron, but he's a princilpled man, we should vote for people of princilple. Not ones who serve to better their own or the nests of their own like.

I am actually a member of the Labour party and I can tell you that one of the reasons people think left wingers are tossers are comments such as that gem from lurked. Sorry but calling a stranger a moron for sharing their honest view makes you a tosser and reflects badly on Corbyn.

How does that reflect badly on Corbyn?

Well, I for one am better off under the Tories. As a relatively affluent person without disabilities or caring responsibilities, I have more. And I believe that I will get more as this Parliament progressed.

For some people, I think that's all it boils down to - pure self interest. If you asked them about the disabled, they might say that they disagree with the cuts, but in reality, a lot of people will put their own interests before others.

If I decided to sod the disabled (and anyone else who might be in need) and vote for what would be best for me personally, I would vote Tory every time. And I'm sure it would be easy enough to borrow the hype about scroungers and benefit cheats to make myself feel better about that choice while continuing to prioritise number 1.

Years ago, I remember my mum quoting someone who argued that we should design our society as if we have no idea of what our own place in that society was going to be - e.g. not knowing if we were going to be part of the wealthy elite or disabled and unemployed. Sadly, we don't design our society in that way at all, and I think most people turn a blind eye to some of the cuts because it just doesn't affect them.

Because the left preaches tolerance (a good thing) while hurling invective at anyone who expresses a mildly right-of-centre view. It's quite funny really.

I don't give a rat's arse how people vote in real life, and I certainly don't call them "morons" for expressing their view. Then again I can also recognize the difference between the phrases "I think the tax burden on middle earners is high enough" (fair enough) and "I want children to suffer in poverty so I can go on more forrin holidays" (not so much). There is just too much hysteria on the left for my liking.

Lurked I think your right we should vote for people who have principles - unfortunately corbyn's principles are not the same as mine so I wouldn't ever vote for him...

Off-topic slightly but I am not convinced that Corbyn's "principles" are much to be admired. He is Chair of the Stop the War coalition, for example, which wants Netanyahu arrested for war crimes and protested when the Israeli football team came to the UK. And yet he speaks to Hamas and the IRA so frequently ("dialogue with our friends is important") that he "forgets" his meetings with them and has to be reminded by his press officer. Footballers are worse than terrorists? Or only Israeli footballers? His principles are fishy at best.

I am not Jewish btw (Muslim in fact) so this isn't axe-grinding, but there is more than a suspicion of anti-Semitism hanging about the Labour leadership, so "principled" would not be the first adjective I would use to describe Corbyn.

I too saw the "Budget 2016: 'Wage growth to slow down', warns IFS", and wondered what the posters saying the Tories are a safe pair of hands would make of it.

Deafening silence and a change of subject, apparently.

Corbyn always gets the blame in the end :o

It's a bloody tragedy that Labour can't win an election against the Tories who are now basically doing what they like. And stupid that everyone turned against the lib dems who could have kept them out. Did you see Corbyns response to the budget? Just reading off a sheet. Like he's given up. He's an enabler!!

Corbyn should be getting the blame! He's not your cosy left wing grandad, he's the leader of the opposition and should be trying to win the next election rather than making the labour party a thing of ridicule.

Would ANY Conservative voters like to address the fact (and it is a fact, as evidenced at length throughout the thread) that Osborne's handling of the economy has been worse than Labour's, and/or that increasing numbers of independent economics experts are stating that a policy of austerity is neither required nor an appropriate course of action to improve the UK economy?

My husband made the point last night that 'austerity' is just a handy cover, for the tories to do what they have fantasised about doing for years - smash local government, along with schools and social housing, sell off the NHS to their pals, and attack the disabled.

Precisely how other governments have used terrorist action as an excuse to go to war, etc.

Austerity is just a really handy excuse to go rifle through the pockets of the poor, and actually dismantle the NHS and stop funding councils, etc. At the end of this term of ofice - and thanks also to the Lib Dems enabling that previous term of office - Cameron, IDS, and Gideon will have done more damage than Thatcher managed in a couple of decades. Austerity is just a front and a myth they created.

So. How do you bring a government down? Vote of no confidence?

GUNPOWDER.

"I am not convinced that Corbyn's "principles" are much to be admired. He is Chair of the Stop the War coalition, for example, which wants Netanyahu arrested for war crimes and protested when the Israeli football team came to the UK. And yet he speaks to Hamas and the IRA so frequently ("dialogue with our friends is important") that he "forgets" his meetings with them and has to be reminded by his press officer. hmm Footballers are worse than terrorists? Or only Israeli footballers? His principles are fishy at best."

Those facts are entirely congruent, Younger. Corbyn believes military action should only be used as a last resort when all other efforts to resolve a situation have failed. He believes that bombing countries causes long-term resentment and that the only way you can achieve lasting peace is by talking to the other side, understanding their point of view and trying to find a path to common ground.

So he is Chair of Stop The War, and he talks to terrorists and oppressive regimes. He played a significant part in the Northern Ireland peace progress, which while far from perfect has at least stopped shopping centres being blown up. He achieved this by talking to the IRA. Using his words, not his weapons.

Joffery, its called shock doctrine, you need an economic shock to use an excuse and then can do all sorts of things the electorate wouldn't have agreed to under normal circumstances.

"then again I can also recognize the difference between the phrases "I think the tax burden on middle earners is high enough" (fair enough) and "I want children to suffer in poverty so I can go on more forrin holidays" (not so much). There is just too much hysteria on the left for my liking."

But it actually means the same thing, the increases in thresholds have already been proved to be of benefit to the well off, far more than the average, and at the expense of the poor.

The burden of tax also lies heaviest on the poor anyway.

www.theguardian.com/money/2014/jun/16/british-public-wrong-rich-poor-tax-research