To not understand how people can justify it

[ijustdontunderstand]

Okay, not a bun fight I just want to understand how those who vote Tory can think the cuts to disability benefits are OK.

This is NOT saying if you vote Tory you're a bad person, at all, I just want to understand. Will you vote them in again knowing?

Its the great flaw in politics, so many people vote because of their own immediate personal interest rather than with what would be better for all.

Its the great flaw in politics, so many people vote because of their own immediate personal interest rather than with what would be better for all.

that is human nature. EVERYONE does that.

If you are in receipt of disability benefits it is going to mean more to you than someone who is not.

I think it is right that people are passionate about things that they know something about. This does not necessarily mean that people who don't know much about it are rotters.

I know someone who lost their job and livelihood because of the hunt ban.

How does that fit with the idea that Labour is not judgemental of others (as was suggested further up thread).

Are you comparing cuts to the disabled and vulnerable to bans on blood sports, really?
Really comparative, especially as the hunting act was passed in 2004, not yesterday

I live in the country btw, I've seen two hunts this year

I know hundreds of men who lost their jobs due to the pit closures and the refusal of the Thatcher government to protect industry in the north in the same way that they protected others. Not the same.

Interesting to see that the IFS agrees with my reading of this budget, gives to the rich and hurts the poor.

Also the hunt ban was the right thing to do, closing the industries in the north without any investment to replace it ( at the same time as funding massive tax cuts for the rich) was the wrong thing to do and we are still reaping the benefits of it now.

that is human nature. EVERYONE does that.

No, not everyone does, as has been made very clear several times already in this thread, most recently by Lurked. I didn't vote in my own best interests. I voted in the best interests of society in general because living in a happier and more equal society will make us all richer. (Not necessarily richer in monetary terms though, so I guess that will be hard for some people to understand if financial gain is all that makes them happy.)

I know someone who lost their job and livelihood because of the hunt ban.

Well, I guess either they or their boss were not of a particularly entrepreneurial mind then. Hunting still continues, just not hunting live foxes. Seriously though, if one person losing their job because of the hunting ban (and allowing that to destroy their livelihood despite knowing for at least 7 years prior that it was likely to be introduced), is your best example of how Labour doesn't care then it is a pretty poor one.

I think the holier than thou attitude of some labour supporters is enough to make me vote conservative tbh.

lampygirl im childfree by choice. And i was on many threads on here voicing my objection to the tax credit cuts.

Just because it doesnt affect me doesnt mean its not on my radar.

Voting based on what is better for us all/the greater good/society is still a very personal, subjective opinion. Some seem to see it as a fact that voting Labour would be better for us all?! Believe it or not there are plenty of Conservative voters who think the country is in far safer hands, thus benefiting more people, longer term than it would be in Labour's and vote according to this, not purely because we as individuals might be better off under a Tory government.

I have never voted for my own short term financial interest but I have voted for my long term financial interest in voting for the party that best manage the economy. That is actually the Labour Party and in particular the maligned Blair/Brown government. There were problems with that government, in particular the failure to take sufficient action over the demands of an ageing population, but had the financial picture not been distorted by a banking crisis that could have been corrected.

Even after the crisis the actions taken by that government were pulling us out of recession until the Tories were elected and chose to put ideology before financial prudence. In the years since they have continued their mismanagement of the economy with the result that they can now claim there is no money. There is. However it is not fairly distributed.

How did you get your money younggirlgrowingold and why did you deserve it? Why did you deserve to be paid - not earn - more than other people who work equally hard? You have benefited from being a landlord, an increase in wealth that isn't deserved. Much of the wealth in this country is in the hands of people who inherited it, No humane person can justify giving more, as in the latest tax cuts, to those who have more than enough while taking food from the mouths of those who are not fit to work.

We have a very inequitable society. I would increase tax on those who can afford it - and I'm included in that group - before I would try to kill off the sick. It's actually a sound way to grow an economy because the money remains IN the economy. If people want to leave let them go - but introduce the sort of controls that some other countries have so that wealth created here does not go with them.

already again you are talking as if this is a fact, its not, its your opinion. 10000's would disagree.

Exactly Bellasima and yet some on the left are so blinkered by their politics that they believe everyone who has ever voted Tory is a massive arsehole.

I am quite active in my local Conservative party although I have voted Labour in the past. (For Blair - I regret it now...) The number of people in the party (especially women) who are massively community spirited and volunteer for everything is really phenomenal. The retired ladies have a rota to make sure there are fresh baked cakes for patients at our local hospice, for example. They knit for preemies, sell charity raffle tickets and are all round good eggs. And yes, they also campaign for the local Conservative candidate and are Tory voters, which makes them Evil Grasping Twats etc according to the MN worldview.

Bellisima, you think decisions should only be made on facts? Have a read www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/pip-cuts-disability-benefits-untested-anecdotal-evidence-gray-review-a6936411.html

already I am not sure why you are asking about my money suddenly? I have just popped back onto this thread after a couple of days having not posted.

I don't think it's particularly relevant to the topic but I have never inherited anything. My dad died penniless and my mother is still alive but far from wealthy. I have been unemployed and a HR taxpayer but my politics has not changed much.

How did you get your money younggirlgrowingold and why did you deserve it?

Oh boy. Typical Labour supporter.

blearynweary
I think the holier than thou attitude of some labour supporters is enough to make me vote conservative
Thats an excellent way to choose who to vote for. Carry on.

Brecon no actually, I am simply arguing against a lot of Labour voters who state their opinions and beliefs as concrete facts widely accepted by all, . as already did-
"the party that best manage the economy. That is actually the Labour Party"

Exactly Apple

If it makes anyone feel better, I suspect I have much less money than working class hero Corbyn.

You're right, I don't care who anyone voted fir but if you support these cuts to disability benefits then you are a massive arsehole.

This thread has been very DEPRESSING. I can't believe you can live your life so insular and not care about the communities you live in and the people who live in them. It's incredibly selfish and I'd say that if I was a carer or not.

I have just popped back onto this thread after a couple of days having not posted.

! I suppose all your posts yesterday and on Tuesday are long forgotten. I guess time flies when you're having so much fun hey!

You're right perm - it was yesterday morning. So shoot me.

Bellisima, your responses don't offer any analysis of the alternative and continually refute facts with "that's your opinion".

Spare me the drivel.

I don't think it can be justified really

People talk of Labour ruining the country, and that makes me think well, increasing poverty and attacking the disabled isn't seen as "ruining the country" then so, its all OK

Benefits fraud is a drop in the ocean compared to bankers, huge companies getting away with minimum tax etc but as ever, fraud is acceptable if its monied and wears a suit...(it reminds me of the tugging the forelock attitude that oh, those with money have always done whatever it takes to hold onto it so, its acceptable to the working man as just what they do) so there's a preference to look at the man across the road and be more scornful if he's caught out, or indeed even if not and its just someone on benefits they're looked down upon

There's a real class divide in this country that is worsening - so many want to feel "better" than others of their "class" so they join in with the richer tiers' scapegoating of the poorer sections of society. Working class snobbery is one of the biggest scourges out there, it causes people to disregard a fair and just society and believe poorer people are mostly always workshy, and deserve what they get. Cameron can do what he likes in terms of benefits cuts he will get a lot of backing for it

I truly believe if a plan was put forward to cease all benefit payments and introduce workshouses again (albeit dressed up to sound different to the standard image of workshouses) so all those benefit claimants couldn't get council accommodation or indeed any private accommodation, then that plan would garner more support than expected out there.

The Tories "Model of Chaos" politics works. Create race and class war, bring division amongst the working classes pander to the I want what they have next door and more, why should they have anything beast that lurks out there, and they'll be able to carry on with decimating the poorer working class quite happily

Labour ruining the country is a media myth propagated by the Tories and believed by fools who have little to no understanding of economics or what is happening to the country.

I've said it here time and time again Osborne has borrowed more money than any Labour Chancellor. The benefits of the growing economy are not being felt by the majority but by the wealthy few and the weakest in our society are paying for this largesse.

Oh and the notoriously right wing IFS agree with me