Jilted John, Savile and lyrics

[Alchemist]

Last night a friend came round and we were talking and she referred to someone as a moron. I winced and said that is not a word I want to hear and it isn't a word I would use personally.

Despite me being po-faced I remembered this song. I think I remember it as supposedly a funny song but I was very young and it played on TOTP, R1 etc. I knew all the words :(.

So, looked it up on Youtube and there it is, introduced by Savile.

I really don't like it.

AIBU to think that lyrics haven't moved forward too much?

I was a latecomer OurBlanche! And fair play to him for being so bold. Like I said, knowing what inspired the song lyrics gives it context, I've just been reading about it now.
I heard a half-arsed crap explanation from my DM years ago and took that as gospel

Two margarines on the go
It's a nightmare scenario

I honestly don't think that the song was ever intended to offend anyone. But my love for John Shuttleworth may make me biased.

I am more worried about the normalising of the word bitch in current music, along with lots of references to rape, anal sex, etc. that, along with the objectification of women in music videos

Same here. The word bitch is becoming synonymous with woman in modern music. How long was Robin Thicke No1 with blurred lines?

The line, "You're the hottest bitch in this place" is meant to be a compliment to make her feel more up for a shag, isn't it?

Well that's 2 minutes of my life that I'll never get back!

Anyone remember people using the word "cretin " to describe someone they thought was stupid? I can remember my dad muttering it at the television when certain politicians were on, probably not realising how offensive it was.

SlinkyVagabond, the Vapours said Turning Japanese was a love song and nothing to do with wanking. They could have been lying I guess, but there's nothing explicit in the lyrics.

''The Americans seemed to think it was written about that. That it was an English phrase about masturbation. It wasn't. The song was a love song about someone who had lost their girlfriend and was going slowly crazy -- turning Japanese is just all the cliches of our angst... turning into something you never expected to."

Yeah, Fenton (the writer) said he always wanted to thank whoever interpreted Turning Japanese that way!

But he was being interviewed on VH1 and they were chasing an American contract at the time. The lyrics , taken as a whole, suggest he was being a tad coy. Man in a cell, has 1 picture of his lady love, that he kisses. He wants more copies so he can paper his cell with them... and on. We (teens that bought it) always interpreted it as a wanking song, a song about a youthful obsession with one woman that no longer wanted anything to do with him.

There were quite a few of them around before and after, from Pictures of Lily, She Bop, I Touch Myself, Dancing with Myself.... oh, and Teenage Kicks (right through the night, alright).

Jilted John was represented as a pathetic (ex) boyfriend - and so ... any words coming out of his mouth need to be heard contextualised as such. They're not meant to be read straight.

Can you see that?

Funny a thread about this era, and not one mention of Olivers Army by Elvis Costello ...

"All it takes is one itchy trigger,
One more widow one less white n***"

Which, if you listen to the song in context is actually a powerful lyric - because wars make widows.

There's also a great line in that song about what it is to be English

"You could be in Palestine,Overrun by the Chinese lines
With the boys from the Mersey and the Thames and the Tyne"

Despised Jilted John at the time - his singing was so out of tune, it was painful.

If you want to be outraged, have a listen to Illegal Alien by Genesis. I remember squirming at the time and it's not improved with age.

Psst! Tanith. Jilted John is a comedic character, he 'grew up' to be John Shuttleworth, and equally awful, bathetic character... the real man behind the characters is Graham Fellows. He does a lovely line in Yorkshire patriotism and unintentional sarcasm and wit

It's a parody song, surely? Taking the piss out of a bitter, immature dumped boyfriend, using the kind of language a person like that would have used at the time. Why on earth does this bother you?

As for moron, yes, moron, idiot and cretin all used to be medically accepted terms relating to low IQ. The English language has moved on, and now they mean something quite different. I doubt your friend meant 'moron' in the original sense, and you were BU to get on your high horse about it. There are far more offensive terms in current usage to get cross about (I still hear people saying 'that's so GAY' to mean generally rubbish, for example).

And yes, Savile does show up in old clips. Why this has anything to do with anything I don't know, people don't automatically get erased from all media when they're outed as evil bastards (despite the best efforts of the BBC. They only ever do clip shows of TOTP2 now, presumably so they can edit him and any other dodgy 70s DJs out).

Spasticus Autisticus was played during the Paralympics Opening Ceremony. I always hear it as Ian Dury's reaction to the 'PC Brigade'.

Idiot, moron etc were in common use long before they were, briefly, used within the medical community to differentiate between levels of intelligence. The 'original' sense was just someone who's done something stupid. I think 'cretin' does have a connection with a specific condition, but it's not widely known and is used in the same way as the others.

I think it's good when words become mainstream. When they can be applied to anyone, they stop being an insult to a particular group.

He still can't sing for toffee, OurBlanche
Those double-recorded discords are real enough!

that is indisputably true, Tanith.