To think that all uk based jobs should be advertised first in the uk before advertising abroad

[ReallyTired]

The company dh works for recently recruited an Indian software developer to replace dh who us leaving. Dh has to work two months notice and gave his notice in one month ago. The company had made no serious effort to advertise the vacancy in the uk. I realise they may need someone quickly, dh hasn't even left. I feel it's racist for a uk based company to say they prefer Indians and not allow other nationalities (already in the uk) to apply. They didn't even advertise the job on the company's website in English. They just approached an Indian agency.

I feel it should be made a legal requirement to advertise all uk based vacancies in the uk for three months before advertising abroad. Unless there is an occupational requirement to speak a different language, jobs should be advertised in English. It would give uk based people a chance to apply for more jobs and cut migration.

I think that's already the legislation isn't it? Enforcing it however is a completely seperate issue.

I suspect they have advertised even if you think it wasn't particularly enthusiastically.

They'll be saving £££££

So, so many biscuits coming your way.

What language did they advertise the job in? And who would be financing the employee's transfer to the UK?

I work in the same industry and the engagement of overseas workforce can be quite complicated at times. In my experience though, IT workers are either engaged via an offshore company and remain offshore ( I've line managed people who are based in India) or they have already moved to the UK

FFS.

Yabvu, you do realize that it's not as easy as hopping onto a plane and getting the job. The company bringing someone over would need the correct visas, relocation expenses and a whole list of other criteria to meet. It costs my dh's company quite a lot to keep us here but they really couldn't find anyone suitable enough in the uk.

I think you've got a point hiding in there somewhere. Its what the US do, you have to prove the job can't be filled by someone there.

I do know a large company that brings over people on secondments for 6 months as they get paid in their local currency but with expenses added on top. It still works out cheaper than employing someone in the country, but they do it more for supply reasons I believe.

This is people employed by a large company that operates in many countries.

YANBU from what you've said. Sounds like the company want to save money and can hire someone from overseas more cheaply than someone here in the UK. I realise that for some jobs (nurses, etc), there is a huge, nationwide shortage and so OS recruitment is essential, but I've not heard that there's a shortage of IT workers.

I agree, but with IT type roles there is a lot of offshoring etc to save money - the guy this company hires may be one building away from the BT rep helping you with broadband telling you to switch router on and off. Likewise with IT services being shipped out go Ukraine, Romania etc.

If they want to bring over someone from India and this person needs a visa, the company will need to demonstrate that they've attempted to fill the role from within the EU. This includes advertising on the Job Centre website for a month.

Over the past few years, it's becoming harder and harder to sponsor non EU nationals and there are lots of hoops to jump through.

The company had made no serious effort to advertise the vacancy in the uk.

I have trouble believing that, or else they must have broken rules if they did. I'm a non-EU migrant. To get my job (admittedly this was 20+ yrs ago) my job had to be advertised EU-wide, and my company had to argue Not that I was the best qualified applicant, but that I was the ONLY qualified applicant. This was in computer info systems, btw. If anything, I expect the rules to be much stricter now.

How do you know exactly what the HR and management do to actively recruit to the role??

We already have the Resident Labour Market Test requirement, which requires companies to advertise for a period in this country before they can sponsor someone from overseas. However, I believe there are exceptions for shortage occupations where the government has identified that there is a shortage of suitably qualified personnel in this country.

Perhaps your husband wasn't as good at his job as the Indian?

Life's a meritocracy, like it or not.

Companies can, it seems to me from experience, easily get round the requirements by specifying that they want a widget whittler / bean counter with X qualification that only happens to be available in Y non-EU country, even if it is not really necessary to have a Ruritanian bean counter and arguably a UK-qualified bean counter would be just as good. (I am not in bean counting, but just using it as an example!)

Your husband is leaving, so what are you so worked up about. Does hr report to you that you know that procedure weren't followed. You seem pissed off but what about who knows.

But also, I've applied for jobs across the world - it works both ways :)

"How do you know exactly what the HR and management do to actively recruit to the role??"

He been looking for a different job for 2 months. He would know if a tool had been advertised on his company's website.

It really doesn't matter how good dh is at his job. He has chosen to move on after six years as he wants a different challenge. He was good enough in his role to get a bonus and had good six monthly reviews. The vacancy has only been open a few weeks so there has been no chance to advertise across the EU. I am sure that the Indian developer is good at what he does, but I doubt there is no one in the EU or the UK who could to the role.

Sports direct recruit Romanian to pack parcels. I feel they should be forced to advertise jobs in English in the uk. Such a law would not stop eu citizens from applying, but give uk citizens an opportunity to apply as well.

So you're saying that SD advertise only in Romanian language or on job sites targetting exclusively Romanian nationals, for their parcel packers? Where (in UK??) are these packing jobs located, anyway? Why would a company do that, limit themselves to just a narrow pool of low skill applicants? Aren't Bulgarians, Latvians or Greeks just as cheap?

FWIW, I got my current job as the ONLY qualified applicant... what made me the only qualified applicant was something that 95% of British resident MNers would also have. Just... they didn't apply. The job was widely advertised in the UK, too, but relatively small window (just few weeks) from advert to interview.

Well I'm a British Citizen living abroad who's moving back to the UK this year and currently job hunting. Will there be allowances for British Citizens in your plan?

If they want to bring over someone from India and this person needs a visa, the company will need to demonstrate that they've attempted to fill the role from within the EU. This includes advertising on the Job Centre website for a month

A company could offer a job at a salary no competent European would accept, but that an Indian might temporarily accept until he is able to stay permanently. ( Long ago I read internet gossip saying this is a thing that happens.)

(I'm actually not 100% sure that imported workers always do get the right to stay permanently. Apparently those that do have the sense to leave their low-paid jobs as soon as they do, to go to ones with normal levels of pay. Another rumored scenario is houses full of imported workers employed via a consultancy with a high turnover, so that each worker is only in the country for six months at a time.)

That gossip was about ten years ago, I'm not sure there would be any reason for this to happen today. It makes more sense to have the cheaper foreign workers stay in their cheaper-cost-of-living countries and logon to your systems remotely.

Incidentally, if you want to get rid of a large number of UK workers and replace them with cheaper foreigners this is how you do it, assuming the jobs in question can be done from an internet-connected computer anywhere in the world.

1. Outsource the jobs to a large UK consultancy, transferring all your staff across so they become consultancy employees. Your staff won't have any choice if they want to keep their job, but they have to be given the same terms and conditions by the consultancy.
2. The consultancy will have a contract to supply services for some small number n of years.
3. After n years, hold a competitive tender. This will be won by a different consultancy who will be able to undercut the original one by using off-shore staff.
4. The first consultancy can now make the staff redundant, as the consultancy no longer has work for them to do. The original employer couldn't make them redundant, because the jobs had not in fact disappeared, nor could they simply sack them and replace them with someone cheaper, as UK law doesn't allow that. The latter is the problem overcome by this overall procedure.

Does the newly important Indian have to pay a visa of value = £5000? This happened to a colleague (high tech job). Might have included his wife & child, mind. They were living/working in Germany at the time, but still had to pay for UK worker Visa(s) because not EU citizens.

UKITWorker I think something similar happened where I used to work. As per my earlier post, the whole thing is v complex and the issues not as clear cut as something you would read about in the DM!

I've not heard that there's a shortage of IT workers.

It very much depends on the skill-set. IT covers a massive range of skills and job roles these days, and there are shortages for some skills. There are definitely future shortfalls predicted, if we don't increase the numbers of young people chosen to go into engineering and technology jobs.

Having said that - my (international) employer has moved most of its development to India, but that is physically in India, rather than employing people from other countries to come and work here - although we do also have a lot of non-British people, at least by birth; I have no idea if they have chosen to take UK citizenship at any point; some ofriends them are here longterm. Don't care, either - it makes the place far more interesting to work in, all the different voices and so on. When I worked for a government department, it was all a bit parochial. I like having a mix of nationalities and languages.