So pissed off at tories putting military youth groups into deprived area schools

[trashcanjunkie]

We live in Newcastle. Yes it's a deprived area. I feel aghast at the fact the only half decent comprehensive school in our area has a cadet group based at school, with fucking army wankers there recruiting kids. The whole army campaign to get them young and 'make them better people' boils my fucking piss. They're cannon fodder who will likely get shipped out to oil wars, and left up shit creek without a paddle, wanting for basic kit etc. Then they either get blown to pieces, die, or come home horrifically injured or psychologically shattered. Now the government are rolling out another military type program and are putting money into sending them into schools in deprived areas.

Fwiw I've nothing against youngsters learning discipline or survival skills etc. I just have an issue with recruiting cannon fodder from 'us plebs'....

I bet if they only put Cadets into private schools there would be a thread moaning about that.

I bet if they only put Cadets into private schools there would be a thread moaning about that.

There are cadets in some private schools

Not just tiggy who has posted that it's a Labour thing.

Here's The Guardian on when Gordon Brown announced additional public funds to provide this.

www.theguardian.com/education/2006/jul/25/schools.uk1

There were about 12 set up in state schools under his government, not sure how many under governments since.

What always makes me with these threads is the amount of posters who think the CCF or the armed forces recruiters actively force youngsters to join up. They don't. I went to the careers office with DS1 3 or 4 times, in 2 different towns, and they both made it completely clear what a career in the army entailed.

Once you fill in the online form, and are accepted through that, there's an interview you need to pass, then a 2 day "selection" which is fitness tests, medicals and academic tests for some. After that if you pass, you're graded as to how soon you will join but you know that they are going to sift through your complete medical notes with a fine tooth comb and you won't really know you're going until they'v done that.

There weren't any cadets at my school, nor my DHs. My brother went to sea cadets for a few years but never joined the military. I joined the Army because I 'didn't want to work to make my boss richer' - public service it was, and the Army seemed like a good bet.

DH joined because he wanted an immediate wage and unemployment in his home town was at nearly 70% then. He got his immediate wage and straight away started sending money home for his little sister.

There weren't any cadets at DS1's school either, he went to a small "leafy comp". He was one of 3 boys and 1 girl in his year who joined the army.

No cadets in my DNephew school who is currently in the army.

There weren't cadets at my school either.
DH didn't have them at his school, but he was an air cadet from the age of 13, joined the RAF Reserves at 16, then joined full time at 17.

Our DD's babysitter did 'airforce' ccf in the sixth form. She learned to fly. Never occurred to her to join the armed forces. Now she's a solicitor. My DD2 is doing 'army' ccf. They do lots of fun outdoors stuff and it's run by volunteers. The kit costs next to nothing and there is an excellent annual 'outward-bound' course in wales she is really looking forward to. Again very cheap. Good team building and resilience skills. Opportunities to learn to sail etc Don't knock ccf. It's a well tried and tested formula for the right sort of child, and has nothing to do with army recruitment.

If there were no military recruitment either directly or indirectly, then it's highly likely national service would come back into being and your children would be forced to join the Forces.

Better that they have a choice, eh?

Exactly Fairy, I think many posters think that young people end up being pressganged into the military, or sign a bit of paper at a school careers fair and before they know it they're walking through the gates for Basic Training

It's a lengthy and arduous process and one that you're unlikely to undertake without a fair degree of commitment.

It's a choice. I'd rather DS did this than hang around 'with his mates', glue himself to the computer or TV, or do bugger all, IR worse got bored and up to mischief.

It gets the kids to be active, responsible, learn respect (God save us from the 'it's all about me' society), practical skills, see good role models and make new friends.

DH did it at school and no one he knows from school joined the military.

My brother was in the air cadets, he never joined the airforce. The friends he made there are still his best friends some 30 years later. I think it's a fantastic opportunity for youngesters. I'd be ecstatic if they had this in the future for my son at school. Remember there is no requirement to either join or have a military career (although I can think of worse things tbh)

Sidge I remember doing my two day selection, and I was the only one there going into one of the only combat roles open to females - the rest wanted to become mechanics, medics, drivers and one of them, an army musician!
Too many people hear about young people joining the army and assume they will all be shipped off to fight within a few months

Yabu. The only person I know who has been on the front line in Iraq is a bloke who went to a really posh public school which had a cadet force army thing at school.

You need to see it as an opportunity for your child to learn skills, go on outdoor trips and whatever else it is that they do. You can say to your child: please have fun at this stuff but understand that I cannot tolerate the thought of you doing it as a career because I am too worried for your safety. Or whatever. But to see it is the government recruiting plebs to get shot is a disgusting attitude.

Coming from a forces family, with four generations of serving military relatives I find some of the comments on this thread really disturbing . Young people who join cadets learn discipline, team working and a whole host of other life skills that will benefit them in whatever career they ultimately choose, along with gaining a range of experiences - some of them quite unique - along the way. My eldest qualified to fly a glider and it was free!! I could never have afforded to give him that opportunity myself, not because we are poor but because the cost privately is extortionate. He didn't join the forces when he finished his a levels, and with our family history he had more reason than most.

I think CCF are great opportunity for young people and those who think they are recruiting grounds for the military are sadly misguided.

Forgot to say, even though my step either died in Afghanistan I would be made up of dd or ds wanted to join cadets.

I agree with the majority of the other posters that op is BU. I was in the air cadets and am now a civil servant.

I think cadets are a great idea. DS would love it I think. He's currently in cubs but I would be happy for him to join the cadets if his school had them.

I bloody loved my time as an Army cadet! I was a fairly prissy teenage girl and the cadets allowed me to try the sorts of wholesome outdoor activities that we all want our children to take part in....cooking outdoors, building shelters, orienteering, etc.
Had absolutely no intention of joining the army at the end of it, nor did I feel any pressure to do so.

There is ccf at Tonbridge school which is a big public school and at our local boys grammar schools. It's a pretty wealthy area.

I think you have a very biased view about this OP, and that no argument is possible or even worth trying

Ok, so far we have established:

1. That cadet groups exist across both deprived and privileged areas and schools.
2. There are readily available alternatives like the Scout Movement and St Johns Ambulance for those who want to learn these skills without a military tinge.
3. Both officers and infantrymen are placed in danger in combat operations.
4. The vast majority of cadets do not join the military
5. Many (if not most) people who sign up have not joined the cadets.
6. The current scheme was not put in place by this Tory government.
7. The OP claims not to wish to offend military people but calls them 'army wankers' and 'cannon fodder'.
8. Many people with more experience of the military have posted explaining the benefits (and personal sacrifices) associated with a military career.

OP, exactly what part of your argument is cogent here?

Just sppilong for a fight. I'd suggest a softer target and not the entire combined UK armed forces.

And the demographic that is targeted is significant. The armed forces draws non-officer recruits mainly from young people with low educational attainment and living in poor communities. Research suggests schools from deprived areas are more likely to be visited by recruiters, with particular focus on the north-east of England, Scotland and Wales. Infantry recruits need only the literacy skills of a five-year-old to join. A large proportion appear to sign up for negative reasons, such a lack of civilian opportunities.

Regardless of where you place yourself on the pacifist continuum, it's legitimate to question whether school is an appropriate forum for the military. The coalition would certainly seem to believe it is, given its proposed expansion of cadet forces across the state sector and use of former soldiers as mentors.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/jul/07/michael-lyons-britains-own-child-soldiers