Adult Children At Home - Other Parents' Experiences Please

[GreyterGood]

Having survived all of my children's childhood without Mumsnet, I have just signed up because I can't cope with their adulthood...

3 sons, ages 21, 23, 24. Living At Home with Mum (that's me; plus my partner of five years; middle son currently away for a year overseas) in London. The oldest could afford to live elsewhere. The youngest is saving for uni in September, working minimum wage, and therefore stuck.

Blow up this morning - I'd been in bed yesterday with a flu-type bug, feverish etc. No extra help. 'But I made you a cup of tea', sayeth one. I'd asked them to make sure dishes done and dishwasher emptied/re-filled by end of day, before I went off to bed. This morning: nothing. 'We Forgot'. By mutual agreement? Both? I got them out of bed and they duly did what had been asked. But at a lot of energy expense from me, and bad feeling engendered. Complaints about injustice from youngest and hectoring sarcasm from oldest son.

Now I wonder whether people could help me get perspective about my older son's claims.
Which are:

• that all of his friends, ages 21-26ish, are still living at home
• & that they talk to their own parents much more rudely and unkindly than my sons do to me
• & that none of these friends have to do any housework or make any contribution to the welfare of the house, ever
• & that everyone else can do as they please, that there are no house rules (I introduced, over time, some rules in specific response to the way certain things affected my work from home and home life in general).
• oh, & that I've 'lost the plot' as shown by 'unrealistic' expectations.

Is my son right in some or all of this? Do the majority of other older parents have their 20-somethings (& beyond) living at home? Happily or unhappily? Is the situation due to lack of other options for the young person? Do other still-at-home 20-somethings truly Do Nothing by way of contribution? Is having to fight for getting the dishes and other help done normal? Is poor behaviour in response to requests for picking up their own (let alone other) rubbish the order of the day? Do other people feel treated as if an annoying intruder in their own home?

Having a better idea of what other people in a similar situation experience would be great. I guess a survey could be useful too. So if anyone knows of a sociological treatment of this sore topic, a link would be appreciated. Meantime, individual experience is direct, and it would be so helpful to hear how it is for you!

Thank you.

Ah yes every time I sit on the loo I am confronted with an empty loo roll, the cat will be meowing for hours but no one feeds her unless specifically asked, no one bothers putting the bins out other than me - even though bin day has been the same day since we moved here 10 years ago, the bathroom towel is never placed neatly back on the radiator, every time I wipe the kitchen sides I go back in there and it looks like someone has strewn a handful of crumbs over the counter, people block the washing machine with loads full if clothes - for days..... It goes in on the joys of young adults

I think you are doing the right thing.

This is not to excuse, but I wonder whether, deep down, these adult kids are actually a bit unhappy and ashamed about being at home, and are hitting out.

Mine are 21 and 25 and living at home. It works because we are all usually mutually respectful and non-abusive and everyone pulls their weight in different ways. If there are disagreements, I tend to be the one that sorts them out. I know it sounds naff, but I like harmony and tolerance.
That's the deal, if they don't like it, they can move out as I did at 18 from my family home.

"- that all of his friends, ages 21-26ish, are still living at home
Yes, the majority of their friends are either living at home or are students and splitting their time between digs and home.

• & that they talk to their own parents much more rudely and unkindly than my sons do to me

We don't tolerate spitefulness, rudeness and aggression to each other. Why would I accept being abused by someone who lives with me? They occasionally fall out with each other, but that's stomping and grumping territory.

• & that none of these friends have to do any housework or make any contribution to the welfare of the house, ever

Sod that, it's a shared house and we all do bits depending on preference, availability and need. The one with a job pays some rent, the student pays in kind. OH has always done his share too.

• & that everyone else can do as they please, that there are no house rules (I introduced, over time, some rules in specific response to the way certain things affected my work from home and home life in general).

Only a few rules, but we keep them.

• oh, & that I've 'lost the plot' as shown by 'unrealistic' expectations.

He's being a selfish, arrogant little shit.

I agree youre doing the right thing, I'd lay odds even if he goes to his dad's, while dads wife may be a mug, I can't see Dad tolerating being talked to like shit on his shoe, paid no keep and disrespected so wouldn't be surprised if he's begging to come back soon!

My experiences are these:

At 22 I returned home to save up for my wedding. I paid 1/3 of my take home for my keep

(I don't understand parents that don't expect working children to contribute financially, they cost in terms of food [and boys especially can eat a lot!], electric, gas, water [especially in England], WiFi, council tax, phone bills).

I worked full time as an HCP and so shifts but still cooked, cleaned (dishes, worktops, dusting, hoovering), did laundry, food shopping, waiting in for deliveries etc, feeding and walking the dog.

When I went back to uni as a mature student I mixed with students of your sons ages, they'd mostly return home during the longer holidays, to see family, but also for holiday jobs and to save money. I can't think of one of them that would ever disrespect their parents like that! Not all of them paid keep but certainly the ones with less wealthy parents did. They certainly were expected to help with housework, cook at least once a week (or pay for takeaway, some were awful cooks!), and if there were very much younger siblings babysit/help with holiday childcare (unpaid). None of them begrudged this!

My own dd just turned 15 has helped since she was little (to be fair it's a novelty 'helping mummy' when they're litle eh?) But now she keeps her own room spotless (she hates mess or dirt), does her own laundry (that's come about over time due to I'm allergic to her detergent and vice versa its a pita! Also as a teen she's quite 'I wanna wear x y z at the weekend' and it's quicker and easier for her to throw what she wants in rather than her explain to me which pair of identical jeans she wants washed!), does the dishes (we do this sort of 50/50 depending who's doing what that eve), cooks at least once a week (she proudly tells people pasta arrabiata is her speciality it is rather good!) Runs Hoover round if I'm having a bad day (mobility and pain issues), helps with the grocery shop. We have a chalkboard (my meds affect my memory) and when we're running low on loo roll, milk or whatever, whoever notices puts on chalkboard for me to put on shopping list and it's not always me that does that. She comes up with ideas to make things easier too. I'm lucky to have her.

But yes I have a disability and mh issues and so people think we'll of course she helps.

But her little group of 5 that all go about together, are all the same, they're all 15/16.

2 other families like us are LP. Both those girls help as much as dd does and one has a baby sibling who she babysits, baths, changes nappies etc.

The boy in the group also helps just as much, no way would either of his parents brook any 'that's womens work' crap! They've 2 of each and all the kids help out, both parents work full time in physically demanding jobs.

The last girl is the eldest of 6 and parents work full time (dad actually works 2 jobs), they're all expected to help even the youngest who lays and clears the dinner table and feeds the cats. The eldest, (dd's friend) babysits regularly and helps the 2 youngest get their stuff ready for school each night as well as helping out with housework as much as my dd helps here if not more.

My daughters moved back home after university for 2 years of law school and training and now have bought their own places. My son child 3 still lives at home but is buying his own place probably later this year and does help with his younger school age brothers - cooks for them every night, collects them from school every single day as he has usually finished work for the day by then ( again he moved back after university) so I do feel I get a lot of benefit from him being at home currently.

I'd definitely find the bullying, stroppy rude attitude intolerable. Laziness you can work on, but a man who thinks it's OK to treat his mother and others like that would be out with no return until he'd changed significantly.

Your children are taking the piss OP.

I'm early 20s and still live at home. Have a PT job until January because it's all I can cope with at the moment (not worked/been in education for a number of years due to MH). Once i'm more "settled" in to my job I also plan on doing some voluntary work one day a week and perhaps building up to 2 or 3 which will help me gain some skills to work in different sectors.

I do all the food shopping and help out with chores if asked- which could be anything really. Sometimes I just don't think to do anything- i.e. Mum will come in and ask why the dishwasher hasn't been emptied or why I haven't put the washing on but i'm just not in the mindset of it "needs doing" iyswim? But if I asked- i do. Today for example i've done the hoovering, cleaned the kitchen, put two loads of washing in the machine/on the clothes horse and cooked the tea. I've asked her to start leaving me a list of chores to do because I genuinely just forget. Sometimes she does take the piss- i.e. she will sit on her arse while im expected to run around like a blue arsed fly but I don't intend to be here for much longer than another year or so. I've always done it- if I haven't done something its because I haven't thought to do it not because im too lazy to do it.

There has been ongoing debates in our house for years r.e. money. Parents weren't very understanding of my MH but due to recent circumstances they are becoming a lot more understanding or have finally given up.

Don't allow for spoilt attitudes. My brother was completely different- did 5 years at university fully funded by my parents and wasn't expected to lift a finger when he was at home. Despite living at the other end of the country and earning a very good salary he still expects the BOMD to bail him out and it seems the penny is finally starting to drop with them.

I can fully believe that in London there are plenty of 20 yr olds who are still living at home- one of my friends moved down there for a job (had to because it's only place where she can do what she wants to do) and has ended up living with relatives because the entry level salary is so poor and rent is so high. She was living in a tiny box room in Camden for a few months and it was costing her 2/3 of her salary.

Well its not just boys i have just got the two girls at home now. The eldest is just about to move out at 24 the youngest has just finished uni. I could cope when they were younger but i feel like a bloody dectective.
I never know if they are in for dinner.
I never know where they are going.
I never know what time they are coming in, so don't know whether to pop alarm on or not.
I love them more than any amount of words can say, and sometimes i have to pinch myself to shut up because deep down they are only human and deserve their own space.
The thing is , its a very fine line between just making conversation and saying something like 'Off out tonight, where you off to, have a good time?'
Or being nosey, and just asking where they are off too,with intent on finding out. I know this is your thread but i would welcome the chance to know if its best to just ask or remain obvilvious.
Kids eh!!!

Mine usually let me know when they are coming back, and where they are going. Not details, just 'Up to London, back around midnight' That usually works, or they send me a text saying 'staying over'
If they're not back, I don't worry, sometimes I count the pairs of shoes in the morning to see who came back after I went to bed.
But as adults, I expect the same level of courtesy I give them.
If we had an alarm, they'd know how to turn it off and on.

I'm going to a agree with PPs. They all need to grow up.
From the age of 14 I pretty much looked after myself. Washing, ironing, cooking etc.
Parents both worked shifts and mum was also at college so it was very much a team effort.
Started uni at 17, lived at home but still paid rent (nominal but still).
I would probably have a last ditch attempt at setting out rules and chores - not that you should have to. They should be contributing to the running of the house and respectful of the other people who live there, especially considering you are paying for everything.
Can you imagine them moving in with a partner and treating them in the same way?

I think the attitude here is the biggest issue - when did they start thinking they could speak to you like that - is this bound up with you getting together with a new partner. There's something odd going on - they seem like they haven't fully recognised you as a person in your own right, you were supposed to be there for them instead of getting together with another bloke, they are behaving like toddlers who didn't get their own way. I know the teenage years can be a challenge with back chat and elements of rebellion and disrespect but these boys should have moved beyond that now.
They do not respect you and your choices, they think their views should matter more - they need a heavy dose of reality.

Sigh... thank you for all the most recent sharing too: so helpful to read all the different views and experiences.

When did it start (thank you blahblueblah) - something I've been thinking about a lot. I realised that one main reason these boys have been apparently 'empowered' to be disrespectful without curb is: it started well before they were old enough to be thrown out.

Their father's attitude definitely had a lot to do with it . Back then, in their low teens, they were still fully involved and helping as asked; of course each felt they were always doing 'too much' compared to the others etc etc but everything seemed to work. Except they were getting 'lippy'. Attempts of appealing to ex for backup were met with contempt and mutterings about 'child labour' (he was 'fun dad' of course).

It never crossed my mind that the rudeness could be more than a phase, or that they would become less cooperative. Funny thing is, I had been told, and believed, that as long as parenting is consistent and loving, all will be well. I'm nothing if not consistent - every shirk and every swear word, I'd make sure they got the message this was not ok. Loving goes without saying - apples of my eye and all that, all three: of course they don't believe me, but they really were all three each one My Favourite. But the rudeness did not stop. I think it started well before my partner appeared five years ago (there was a long-term boyfriend, but he didn't live here); escalation really happened over the last 12 months or so, with no trigger that I can see.

Friends who were rather more indulgent with their kids, didn't make them help a lot, were consistently less consistent about house rules, behaviour etc ... have far more harmonious home situations.

Meantime, oldest son has announced that he's moving over to his father's this weekend. Bad for him, bad for the dynamic (no danger of life lessons or a sense of proportion...). While the best solution for this household in the short term, my mother heart is just so, so sad.

Thanks for all the support.

Good I'm glad he's moving out. It's the first step for him to grow up. Because they will eventually tire of it too. Of course he's all offended!

I think he will eventually realise. My DD2 is 15 and rude to me, but she has sn and I'm not sure which part is being 15 which is personality and which bit is the SN. It's tiresome. I get so irritable by the I've emptied the dishwasher for you. Why for me? You had pots in there too!

Mind you I didn't help out much at home but I didn't return after uni. I am horrified now of course how little I did!

My DD1 bless her is very good. She cheerfully helps so much and as for the letting me know when she's coming back she does ....even let's me know when she's done a long journey that has neither started from home or ended up at home!

It might be a good thing that he is moving in with his dad - once the novelty wears off dad might very well get pissed off with the laziness and attitude too. As things have stood, it was easy for your ex to play fun dad and criticise you because he wasn't having to actually put up with the behaviour.

The other thing you might find is that your boy behaves better for your ex. Try not to take this to heart. I know a 20 something 'man' who is a lazy sod for his mum.but good as gold at his dad's, simply because he knows deep down that dad and step mum's love is not unconditional and they will turf him out if he messes up their house so he has to pull his weight.

Moving to his dad's may work out differently to your expectations. Your ex was happy to encourage your sons' rudeness to you, because the only person who suffered from that was you. It reinforced his image as 'fun dad' to them. But when your eldest moves in with him, the only people on the receiving end of rudeness/laziness will by your ex and his partner. You will not suffer at all. I think your ex might find it a little less acceptable than before.

I'm another who believes he won't get away with as much at his dad's as he thinks he will.

As pp have said, easy to be fun dad when you're not dealing with his arsey attitude day in day out...

Does dad know he is moving in ?! Does dad know how much it costs to keep a 20+ lad?! I'm sure the food bill alone will come as a shock!

I've said this before on similar threads, but look up No Charge (cheesy country songs but makes a good point) on youtube and play it loudly around the house as he packs. It's the right thing for him to go, and I agree that fun dad will find it's not so much fun being permanent housekeeper, cleaner etc.

I think a bout of arsey attitude meets fun dad is much in order and it's highly likely you will be satisfied with the ensuing result. In the meantime you only have the younger son to grapple with. Divide and conquer. And if your elder son comes crawling back, strong mum will need an apology perhaps for his rubbish attitude? The only risk is the younger lad may see greener grass and also choose to go to his dad's for a while too. However, it's highly unlikely that they will both like living in either what will soon become a squat if someone doesn't tidy up or fun dad turned shouty dad, who never learnt appropriate parenting skills.

It's quite hard to see your own DF as a useless, selfish twonk.

He is your father.

You probably take after him.

I think maybe boys are becoming adults, have had a lousy example in their father, to copy. And are flexing their muscles.

I think they'll come back as nice adults eventually, but it doesn't do you good to be seen to accept being walked all over so you need to be firm.

But I would also say what is on your mind to them eg that you wish DS1 would stay and could cooperate more or whatever - don't assume they can read your mind. Especially as DF will be sticking his oar in now.

DS1 might not be arsey with DF. Remember Kevin's friend Perry - so polite at his pal's house. Kids/people can do this on a whim imv.

It's true that many DC in London live with their parents well into adulthood.

Many pay rent, help with chores and contribute. The vast majority are not rude and cheeky.

I'd insist on civility and charge him rent. (My children are younger, but I've been watching families ahead of me on my street, and this seems to be the best practice.)

I would not be letting oldest back from his dad's if he changes his mind. He will promise you the moon on a stick but you won't get it. He needs to be flatting and learn how to be an adult.