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AIBU?

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Original poster

to have just sent DD to school in tears?

97 replies

lucyloveslemonade · 08/03/2016 09:27

DD (8) has form for wanting anything her little sister has got and claiming everything is hers and not to be touched - even if she isn't using it and has no plans to. This morning, she noticed her 4 yo sister had some small toy figures to play with. They received a pack of 20 each at Christmas and they are stored together because they have universal accessories also in the box. 8 yo hasn't played with these figures since Christmas day despite them being stored in plain sight in her room.

When she saw 4 yo had them, she demanded the entire box so she could remove her ones. The box was out of reach because their baby sister was in the room too. This was about 5 mins before we needed to leave for school so I said that she can't take them to school but could play with them when she comes home. She said she didn't want to take them to school, just store them in her room [unspoken: so her sister can't play with them after nursery] and I said they're fine when they are.

She continued to try and sneak and reach the box and so I said if she ignored me, she wouldn't be able to play with them after school either. She still tried to get it when my back was turned, then was unkind to her sister. She ignored me the entire way to taking 4 yo to nursery and I then asked why she was grumpy and if she wanted to talk and sort it out rather than just ignore me. She just shrugged repeatedly to anything else I said during the 20 min walk to school.

When we arrived at school I passed her her bags and said 'bye then, have a good day' and she burst into tears. Her teacher came over to see what was wrong and I explained DD had decided to ignore me and was possibly regretting it now it was time to leave. She took a tear strewn DD in, obviously leaving me feeling guilty, but I don't think I treated her badly? DH would've pandered to her on the way to end the ignoring but she needs to learn that isn't the way to treat people, IMO.

OP posts:
SatsukiKusakabe · 08/03/2016 11:29

Going against the grain - I don't think you handled it badly, but I would have handled it differently. So not disagreeing exactly, but just saying what I would have done.

My ds sometimes does this with toys, taking his thing that he wasn't interested in just so his sister can't have it. I say to him he is quite welcome to take the bits that are his and put them away, but that letting his sister play with them would be the kind thing to do. Usually when given the control over the choice, he makes the right one, but on his terms ifyswim. On the occasion he makes the 'mean' choice. I tell him I think it's a shame, that it wasn't a kind decision, but reinforce it is his choice. I then remind him that I won't be forcing his sister to share anything of hers he might want. This usually ends up in him making the choice to share. Lots of good attention at a later point as well, because a lot of bad and possessive behaviour stems from perceived lack of attention IME.

The ignoring thing...I wouldn't have let the argument leave the house. It would have been brought to a head one way or another before getting in the car, even if that was a telling off followed by a hug.

As a child I had fraught mornings with my mum and remember vividly being dropped off at school upset, out of step with the day, hours to go before it could be 'put right' so it is important to me we never part on bad terms. That is my issue, though. Upset at parting, nervous about school,can't be helped, but disputes are settled when they occur and neither party gets the chance to sulk.

ghostspirit · 08/03/2016 11:30

i think you handled it well op.

with the sharing thing in my house you have to share and thats it. we have had the but its mine type thing now and then. and i will say ok well L does not have to share his playstation anymore then... and then that soon makes the sibling change their mind.

backinschool · 08/03/2016 11:36

MangoBiscuit - glad I'm not the only one who does this. DD1 and DD2 are very close and don't bicker very often so the sharing works for us but I've been told before that making them share everything is mean.

lucyloveslemonade - hope I haven't derailed the thread a bit. You sound like you are doing a fantastic job. I bet she is having a lovely time at school now while you are worrying! Hope you have a lovely evening with her and no more tears.

specialsubject · 08/03/2016 11:36

didn't get her own way, howled and sulked. Yep, that's how it is. Consequences.

stick with it, OP. These lessons have to be learned and the sooner the better.

SatsukiKusakabe · 08/03/2016 11:40

Yay mango if they fight over anything I give them one warning that they find a way to play with it nicely or it goes, regardless of who started it. It usually fosters quite good team building between them one way or another!

backinschool · 08/03/2016 11:43

DisappointedOne - the DDs know that they aren't allowed to touch anything in my office (as it's either for work or dangerous), my work clothes, my flute (unless they ask first and I supervise) or my favourite perfume/jewellery (as they were gifts and they would feel bad if they broke them) but yes they help themselves to my clothes, scarves, the rest of my jewellery, make up, books etc play on my kindle and ipad and yesterday had a lovely bath with one of my Mothers Day bathbombs.

middlings · 08/03/2016 12:04

if they fight over anything I give them one warning that they find a way to play with it nicely or it goes, regardless of who started it. It usually fosters quite good team building between them one way or another!

^^this

And mine are 2 & 3. And I leave whatever it is visible on a high shelf. Funnily enough, I don't have to do the high shelf much now. The threat of it promotes world peace.

Well done OP, I think you handled that really well. The pandering DHs do make things more difficult. Mine would have done the same.

Original poster
lucyloveslemonade · 08/03/2016 23:07

The removing things if they can't share nicely wouldn't work here because 4 yo is always happy to share and take turns and 8 yo mostly isn't so she'd be happier at something being removed altogether than with her sister having it, she'd see it as 'winning' because her sister will have lost it.

Occasionally she will tell her sister she isn't allowed in her room or to share her things and while I could say 'well, you're not allowed in her room or to share her things then', I think that's a bit petty and would rather 4 yo continue to be kind and good at sharing rather than get one over on my 8 yo. I think seeing 4 yo still be kind even when she isn't winds her up but ultimately makes her realise it would be nicer to be like that and that that behaviour receives more positive attention from me.

4 yo played with the figures after nursery then tidied them away and left them on 8 yo's bed for her to play with after school. Surprise surprise, she didn't touch them!

OP posts:
SueLawleyandNicholasWitchell · 08/03/2016 23:27

Interestingly, I remember a friend saying to her (refusing to share daughter) "Well if you don't want to share your X with your sister, then we don't want to share our time with you" and her and other daughter walked out the room and left her alone. Having played solo with the item for a bit, she then was desperate to join in and so willingly offered the toy back.

However, it sounds like your dd is quite a crafty fox if she is happy to lose things as long as her sister doesn't derive any joy from them. I think you dealt with it magnificently this morning.

pandarific · 08/03/2016 23:36

She sounds really, really jealous of her little sister. I'd say that's worth exploring. Does she get much attention and praise from you completely away from her sister?

Original poster
lucyloveslemonade · 08/03/2016 23:38

Thank you Sue.

I don't feel like I could do what your friend does with dd because she's very jealous of 4 yo so it'd just reinforce her self-pitying that I prefer 4 yo over her and make her behaviour worse.

OP posts:
Original poster
lucyloveslemonade · 08/03/2016 23:43

Yes, panda. I take her out at least once per fortnight on her own and we also read alone each night, if DH is working away I put 4 yo and baby to bed and 8 yo and I watch a film or play games. She does play nicely with 4 yo 80% of the time and I really praise that but when she's unkind, she's very unkind and will not stop until 4 yo is crying. She then doesn't show any remorse or apologise, she just feels sorry for herself because of whatever consequence occurs.

OP posts:
SatsukiKusakabe · 08/03/2016 23:44

But why is she so concerned about 'winning'? It's not about her little sister, and it's not about the toys (that's why she's not interested later) ultimately it's about her mum and perceived attention distribution.

You dealt with it well this morning in that you 'won' that particular battle, but she was left upset and feeling perhaps more disconnected, which doesn't really solve the ongoing issue, rather it feeds it.

Does she get any special time just with you, where she has your undivided attention? Is that possible at the moment? Sounds like it's beyond petty squabbles and maybe she needs a bit of bolstering. When you least feel like giving it to them is usually when they need it most.

MyFriendsCallMeOh · 08/03/2016 23:44

I don't agree with punishing a child that can't manage their own feelings of jealousy, it's a really difficult emotion to learn to control. I can still remember being left at primary school in tears, it was horrible, and I'm in my 40s now. Do you know why she is jealous? She's old enough to have a serious conversation about this. I do think that punishing just teaches kids to be sneaky and makes them think they've paid their dues. It doesn't get to the root of the problem.

NeedAScarfForMyGiraffe · 08/03/2016 23:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SueLawleyandNicholasWitchell · 08/03/2016 23:47

I don't think you can do it any better I really don't. Sounds like you bust a gut and if she's fine for 80% of the time then that's very positive.

"I noticed" language is supposed to be very helpful when used positively. Perhaps worth a try? "I noticed you sharing that with xx. That was kind behaviour". "I really admire people who spend time with others. I noticed you spending some time earlier on showing X how to do Y. "

SatsukiKusakabe · 08/03/2016 23:52

Cross post.

Is anything going on at school that she's anxious about? My ds went through a very spiteful phase with his little sister, and it turned out he was being excluded a bit at school. Once that was resolved things settled down again. Since then I try and make time for five or ten minutes Lego or. Transformers or whatever he chooses and it gives him a chance to talk and keep him on an even keel. It's so hard to do though, and I only have two Flowers

pandarific · 08/03/2016 23:52

I'm not meaning to criticise by the way, hope it doesn't come across like that.

What does she say when you ask her why she feels jealous of 4 yo? Could you talk together about it when you're out together do you think? Maybe having a quiet chat where you non-judgementally ask her about her feelings, and however 'bad' they are not criticising them, just lots of reassurance and love for her, not as a big sister or anything like that, just as herself. Poor little thing. Jealousy is such a strong, corrosive emotion.I wonder if it's partially because she feels the 4 yo 'gets' to stay home with you after nursery/gets more attention/is the favourite that she behaves in this way?

SatsukiKusakabe · 08/03/2016 23:55

I do agree with pp that letting have some choice and ownership over whether she wants to share certain things that are 'hers', regardless of whether you think it is driven by pettiness, might help her feel more in control and more likely to feel generous on her own terms, as far as the actual sharing issue goes,

Original poster
lucyloveslemonade · 09/03/2016 00:00

She insists she isn't jealous of her but says she doesn't particularly like her and that she annoys her. Any deeper probing and she simply shrugs. The ironic thing is, 4 yo is often happy to play alone and it's 8 yo who keeps trying to get her to play with her! But she doesn't seem to understand how to put herself in someone else's shoes. For example, if 4 yo was playing alone with figures then 8 yo would try and join in by taking half or shouting and singing in the same room rather than simply asking to play.

OP posts:
Wdigin2this · 09/03/2016 00:06

You did the right thing...well done, it's not easy to stick to your guns!

MirriVan · 09/03/2016 00:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

G1raffe · 09/03/2016 00:17

Gosh I really don't believe in enforcing sharing or taking away a toy they are fighting over. One child.always ends up "giving in" or the loser just to avoid it being taken away. If I was just about to eat a slice of toast and my husband ate half or I wasn't allowed any. Or started to watch TV and had to change chanel to my husbands choice or the TV went away or went on mumsnet but had to give it to my husband or the ipads went away....

Mine play together really well but I've certainly allowed special toys and personal toys to be returned you actual owner if wanted it. And if they've wanted to play on their own or time alone the their room is a safe space.

I think knowing that makes sharing or playing togetger easier.

Original poster
lucyloveslemonade · 09/03/2016 00:19

Of course I like her Mirri, but I started this post to discuss her poor behaviour in relation to sharing rather than her attributes.

OP posts:
pandarific · 09/03/2016 00:20

it doesn't sound like you like your daughter too much right now, and see the younger as the nicer one.

I kind of agree. In your heart of hearts, do you treat them differently?

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