to have just sent DD to school in tears?

[lucyloveslemonade]

DD (8) has form for wanting anything her little sister has got and claiming everything is hers and not to be touched - even if she isn't using it and has no plans to. This morning, she noticed her 4 yo sister had some small toy figures to play with. They received a pack of 20 each at Christmas and they are stored together because they have universal accessories also in the box. 8 yo hasn't played with these figures since Christmas day despite them being stored in plain sight in her room.

When she saw 4 yo had them, she demanded the entire box so she could remove her ones. The box was out of reach because their baby sister was in the room too. This was about 5 mins before we needed to leave for school so I said that she can't take them to school but could play with them when she comes home. She said she didn't want to take them to school, just store them in her room [unspoken: so her sister can't play with them after nursery] and I said they're fine when they are.

She continued to try and sneak and reach the box and so I said if she ignored me, she wouldn't be able to play with them after school either. She still tried to get it when my back was turned, then was unkind to her sister. She ignored me the entire way to taking 4 yo to nursery and I then asked why she was grumpy and if she wanted to talk and sort it out rather than just ignore me. She just shrugged repeatedly to anything else I said during the 20 min walk to school.

When we arrived at school I passed her her bags and said 'bye then, have a good day' and she burst into tears. Her teacher came over to see what was wrong and I explained DD had decided to ignore me and was possibly regretting it now it was time to leave. She took a tear strewn DD in, obviously leaving me feeling guilty, but I don't think I treated her badly? DH would've pandered to her on the way to end the ignoring but she needs to learn that isn't the way to treat people, IMO.

[TheOnlyColditz]

wrt sharing - when my dss decided he didn't want ds2 to touch his (dss's) tablet, I told everyone in the house ot to let Dss touch any of their things for half an hour, and dp and I also stuck to this - meaning if he sat down "That sofa's mine, you can't touch it" - if he went to get a drink "That cup's mine, you can't touch it", if he wanted his coat to go out "hey Dss, you can't touch my coat even to move it!", if he glanced at the TV "I pay for this Netflix, you go and buy your own"

And he understood how massively inconvenient it is when someone is being stupid and possessive over things that can and should be shared in a family home.

His sister, dsd, isn't like that at all, but dss is the oldest of four at his mum's house, and is used to having control ...

[Lopperlady1]

I don't think you were being unreasonable. And I think done people are being unfair saying it sounds like you don't like your daughter- you were discussing her bad behaviour!! Right before school is not the time to start diving up toys. And then she ignored you and carried on which is never acceptable. So you were right to stick to what you said. If it was a special personal toy then maybe a different approach but a toy she's not normally interested in she is making a fuss over nothing. I would have done the same.

[SatsukiKusakabe]

No one is saying she should be allowed to be mean to her sister so I don't know how to respond to that.

It goes without saying that you need to do the same, make time for your other children as well. I'm just saying that the effort and energy is going on the eldest anyway only it is all negative. Just a bit of positive bolstering, not when directly in the centre of an argument about something, might make more time over all, from which everyone benefits.

[SoupDragon]

The poor middle child benefits from the eldest feeling more secure and stops being the focus of her negative feelings.

The poor middle child is four and all she will see is her sister being allowed to be mean to her.

[MiscellaneousAssortment]

I think it does indeed sound like you don't like her behavior, but I also think that's ok sometimes!

It's ok to be human and get fed up and want to vent - It's kind of the point of forums like mumsnet isn't it?

Yes, your eldest sounds like she's difficult at the moment. And lots of advice on here how to stop it becoming her role in the family. I especially like the changing your own behavior example of the boy who was missing his daddy.

But apart from all the great advice, I wanted to say that it's ok to get cross, annoyed and frustrated on here when the children are out of the way. It's human and if you don't let it out in a 'safe' way that's when these things get entrenched and worse for everyone involved.

Please do rant. Then be constructive later :)

[spanky2]

I would have done the same. I wonder if she thought you may give in and was frustrated and cried when she realised you weren't going to.

[SatsukiKusakabe]

You can be firm and kind. You don't have to give into what they want at that moment to kill it with kindness.

You can't let your position in your own family project onto your children.

[SatsukiKusakabe]

The poor middle child benefits from the eldest feeling more secure and stops being the focus of her negative feelings. Every child will act out in some way when there's a new sibling and it might not always be the way you might expect.

I think what pp are saying about the not liking thing - if we're all honest we can go through phases of getting so fed up with their behaviour we feel like this. I know I have had periods where I just get caught in a cycle where It's easy to start thinking 'he is this he is that, why won't he learn' and pigeonhole them as difficult etc. I get to where I feel primed to be a bit cross with him, and he is alert to that it and is primed to play me up more, and it all just gets worse.

I know what 'works' best though and that is when I break the cycle, do something different and give him a chance to behave differently too.

Yesterday for eg my ds was being really annoying at the dinner table, being rude, getting told off, being rude getting told off, it just went on and on, then I just stopped and asked him did he want a hug? He said yes, then said he was missing his daddy (who'd been working and not around much the day or so) and after that we had a nice relaxed bath time, stories etc. I know if I hadn't done that then we'd have had a shouty bath time and he'd have gone to bed upset.

A few people mentioning How to Talk... Siblings without rivalry by same authors good for ideas as well on specific situations like sharing.

[grannytomine]

I think you are amazing to stay calm and dealt with it really well. Sometimes doing the right thing doesn't feel good but that is part of the joy of being a parent. Hope you both have a good hug when you pick her up.

[lucyloveslemonade]

Exactly, SoupDragon. I was very much like my middle child and I was largely ignored while my parents spent their time trying to pacify my bossy and demanding older sister.

In this situation however, the main thing she did wrong was ignore me when I asked her not to reach for the box. Blatant ignoring of a parents request cannot be 'killed with kindness' IMO.

[Kitkatmonster]

Yanbu. All very reasonable. 8-10 year old girls - honestly! I have a 9 yo who has and does behave similarly.

[SoupDragon]

Kill it with kindness.

And meanwhile, what about the poor middle child?

[0hCrepe]

I think you handled it well and consistently. You followed through with warnings. I would also now acknowledge with her that sharing things is hard, everyone finds it hard to see someone else touching their things, even grown ups, and you can worry something might get damaged.

[Lifeisontheup2]

I think you handled it very well, I have three DC's and had to do this with each one at different times, surprise, surprise they are grown up now, good friends and they don't hold it against me.

[PennyDropt]

Sibling rivalries can last a lifetime. I still bear grudges over some incidents and I'm 55

[Habari]

My sister was like your eldest. This reminds me a lot of how my childhood was. She was never really pulled up on it as my parents thought I should learn to stick up for myself. She is still the same today and we are in our 40s. If you can get to the root of it now, please do. As the youngest in this situation I had a horrible childhood... this continued to escalate from toys to clothes to friends and boyfriends. I've moved half way around the world to get away from it.

[G1raffe]

I second the how to talk book. I could probably do with rereading it myself!

[MyFriendsCallMeOh]

Actually, I don't even punish my dogs, it doesn't work for them either.....

[MyFriendsCallMeOh]

Please read How to talk so kids will listen. You have a baby too, right? So your 8 yo is feeling all kinds of confusion and jealousy, whether she can express / admit to it or not. I have discovered that my kids have very logical emotions but just don't know how to deal or display them. Some understanding and helping them to identify this and deal with it will give them great tools for growing up. Punishment doesn't work. It's for dogs, not children. Lay the foundations for your eldest as she becomes a pre-teen and after, otherwise I fear you may be in for a bumpy ride.

[pandarific]

it doesn't sound like you like your daughter too much right now, and see the younger as the nicer one.

I kind of agree. In your heart of hearts, do you treat them differently?

[lucyloveslemonade]

Of course I like her Mirri, but I started this post to discuss her poor behaviour in relation to sharing rather than her attributes.

[G1raffe]

Gosh I really don't believe in enforcing sharing or taking away a toy they are fighting over. One child.always ends up "giving in" or the loser just to avoid it being taken away. If I was just about to eat a slice of toast and my husband ate half or I wasn't allowed any. Or started to watch TV and had to change chanel to my husbands choice or the TV went away or went on mumsnet but had to give it to my husband or the ipads went away....

Mine play together really well but I've certainly allowed special toys and personal toys to be returned you actual owner if wanted it. And if they've wanted to play on their own or time alone the their room is a safe space.

I think knowing that makes sharing or playing togetger easier.