To return puppy to breeder?

[TrueBlu]

I'm really at the end of my tether with this.

I've had dogs all my life, mainly labs and collies who've house trained very quickly but also rescue dogs who've not been properly house trained as pups.

We now have an 8 month old boxer bitch.

She will not house train. The problem is she won't give any signals to be let outside. Everything has been done by the book, done again and redone again.

Lots of praise, treats, tethering to us, crate training, let out every 30 mins etc.

She continues to poo and we in her crate, or if she's not in the crate in the house.

I've contacted the breeder who says her mother was the same

One of the other owners from her litter says she's having a lot of problems with her bitch too.

The vet says she has no health problems.

We have DC and caught out 18 month old walking around with dog poo in her hand the other week...

Just don't know what to do.

They can be very subtle signs, (my dog lays on the floor looking at me, which is easy not to notice) I think the trick is to get her outside even if you're unsure if she needs to go rather than wait until you're sure. It's a pain to do to start but really it's the only way you will get the results.

I started to use a command word with my puppy for toileting, if I could reward him within 3 seconds I would repeat word and treat.

He started to become a bit of a bugger for not wanting to go outside unless I took him.

I started to throw kibble down on the ground outside that he had to sniff out, the sniffing around action was to encourage his toileting, I would say toilet command he would eat kibble then pee.

Eight months of toilet accidents with young children must be horrific. I had a pup who was difficult to toilet train but no DCs at the time so everything was a lot easier. I don't remember how long it took her in the end but it was under a year.

You say you've tried tethering, what happens then? This is the one technique I've found works with difficult to train dogs, you put the lead on and keep the dog with you or in the crate or outside so that there is zero opportunity to soil. I've never heard of a dog soiling when tethered, but I suppose there is always the one!

Another thing worth trying is getting a UV light detector to look for traces of urine and cleaning with an enzyme cleaner like Simple Solution.

Make sure the dog's worming is up to date if the DCs are coming into contact with her faeces.

I can't remember exact dates, but I moved house when our boxer was 10months and we didn't have regular accidents from then. As soon as he arrived with us at 8wks he was able to wave his paw at the door to ask for the toilet, but he would still have frequent accidents as a pup. It really sounds like perseverance and seeing a behaviouralist.

Thanks, some great advice!

I'm going to try tethering again as this did work whilst she was tethered, but after a few days we stopped as hoped she'd 'got it'.

I think tethering will definitely work but it might take a while,if you stop the tethering and it starts again go back to the tether until she's cracked it.
She does sound like a lovely dog all in all.
How many times does she poo in a day ?
Can you note the times for a few days & see if it's regularly the sane times?

Also clean up any areas previously soiled with white vinegar,it is dirt cheap & gets rid of the enzyme that can attract them back.

I agree with you OP, you should get rid of the dog one way or the other. An animal peeling and pooing all over your house is completely revolting, especially when you have young children.

However responsible the breeder, they breed dogs to 'look' a certain way, and they sell them, they don't give them away!
Just look at wild dogs, Dingos, African wild dogs and Grey wolves, a direct descendant of the domestic dog, that have evolved to be naturally fit and healthy and then compare them to the hideously deformed creatures that are described as dogs that are being 'created' now. It is hideous and cruel in the extreme.
You must also take into account how many pups are killed at birth because they are too deformed either to survive or sell.

www.pupaid.org/puppy-farming/can-i-get-a-puppy-from-

What's all that got to do with how the OP deals with her situation gailhodson?

Would spending time with another mother dog and her puppies help, or is it too late for that? Sorry, I don't know a lot about dog behaviour, but just remember our breeder kept our cavoodle pup til 9 weeks instead of 6 as some do, as she said it was better for the mum dog to have time to train the pups. Just a thought.

My friend has 4 yorkies, 2 were pups of one of them. So granny, mum, 2 pups.

It took 2 years to train them as according to her they as a breed mature very slowly.

They had ample access to garden as there was a door in kitchen. They used garden but also used house so there was no pattern to try to intervene.

She managed to train them mostly to puppy pads at kitchen door and in hall but there still were little presents (as she put it) in other areas.

They are mostly sorted now but when I visit pads are still down although normally dry but now and again still wee or occasionally poo.

miss that's a good point.

Once they have done it once it is attracted to do it in that spot again.

I have a stubborn, slow maturing breed too. He was housebroken by 8 months, but has to be crated on a night because he will wee in the house if he needs to go. He doesn't "ask" to go out - but we let him out every couple of hours now (he's 2) and he knows to hold it until we let him go out. He doesn't soil the crate.

I would go back to puppy basics. A high level reward treat (liver?) which dog only gets for weeing or pooing outside. Take dog outside every half an hour minimum and wait with dog until they "go" - treat and praise immediately. It's a nightmare in winter - I got my pup in December.

Clean house with either simple solution from pets at home, or make a solution of biological wash powder and clean up any mess with that - removes lingering odours which dog can smell.

I thought small breed mature faster than larger ones Ginkypig either way it shouldn't take 2 years to house train any dog. It will take that long if nobody is showing them any different, which sounds like could be the case with your friend.

Same with our little jrt/staffy cross. We did everything by the book. We were experienced dog owners never had a dog that wasn't housetrained by 10 weeks... went on forums, followed suggestions (were doing it 'right' to start off with). Nothing worked.

Thing is, bull breeds... some of them hate the rain, wind, wet, cold... And she was born at the end of summer so by the time we had her it was winter. Also rescue so we reckon her feckless 'breeder' yelled at her or worse when she had an accident as a pup - which made her phobic about people seeing her poo...

So the combination of those things ut most of all - winter pup - SO much harder to potty train.

I was exactly like OP and despairing. Then one day, 'caught her being good' - peeing outside - did all the usual things, praise heavily, gave a treat etc...

I thought it was a fluke.

But then she slowly started getting OK at it then (speak it quietly as she's only 18 months now)... reliable. She still poos secretly - and almost never wees or poos on a walk (typical of nervous dogs). As soon as 'the tide turned' we took a risk and got a new living room carpet. That seemed to do the trick. As it didn't smell at all of her wee - and again we did everything text book, assiduously cleaned up accidents with bio washing powder, blah blah...

I was totally where OP was. Despairing. No way could we take her back because we loved her absolutely - but I was despairing. I know I did nothing 'wrong'. People who have had no difficulty housetraining a dog think they have it cracked (as did I when I'd had a series of dogs, over a lifetime and never a difficulty housetraining one) but this last dog taught me it's in the dog, not the owner. Sometimes you just have to wait for the penny to drop re. spending pennies.

Like children, they probably have a 'zone of proximal development' and some are hard wired to take longer than others.

Is it clear to the dog how she should ask to be let out? ( we have a rope with bells on it hanging from the door handle, and the dog taps them with her paw or nose). Or is a dog flap/door a possibility? Could it be she doesn't know how to ask? Sorry if obvious. You do sound like you've tried everything OP :(

Could it be that she understands that doing it outside is good but not that doing it inside is bad?
I had a similar problem with a 9 month old rescue mastiff cross male. Although he was clean during the day he regularly pissed on my curtains in the night (possibly why the previous owners got rid of him). He could hold his pee no problem in the daytime, he'd go to the back door when he wanted to go outside, I did the positive reinforcement every time he went to the toilet in the garden, but we had a sticking point with nights. One night I'd had enough and rightly or wrongly told him off...I grumpily pointed to the curtains and said "you do that OUTSIDE! OUTSIDE!". That was the last time he pissed in the night without asking to go out, and it didn't take long before he didn't even need to go. I had always said the word "outside" when I let him out into the garden and I wonder if, until that point, he hadn't quite understood that although I was very pleased whenever he toileted outside, that he didn't understand it was bad to do it indoors. I agree with a PP who said one size doesn't fit all when it comes to training.

Sorry, should have added that I have absolutely no experience with Boxers so don't know if that would make things worse or better.

"Is it clear to the dog how she should ask to be let out? ( we have a rope with bells on it hanging from the door handle, and the dog taps them with her paw or nose)"
That's genius! So simple yet so effective

Should add, the secret poos are hidden in the garden - not the house! I leave her to get on with it then have to track them down to bin after - she only does one a day. All my other dogs have poo'd on walks (which of course we picked up) but she still hates anyone seeing her go.

She will wee in front of people now. She does it in the same part of the garden (luckily where there's no grass to kill).

Just wanted to reassure OP as someone who has been in the identical situation only a year ago - there IS hope.

Good god woman do you really need to ask ?
You are clearly a far softer hearted person than I am.
Return this dog immediately.
Who wants dog pee and shit all over the house?
Get rid now.

Mine was like this till over 1. After she was spayed it improved and now she goes 10-12 hours at night before wanting to go out. I was a soft touch though and her crate is in my room. If she is downstairs alone she'd still do it .

imin nah op just isnt a twat

How irresponsible iminshock, you're talking here about a sensitive creature that should not just be dumped! What happens then, does it join the rest of the 5000 or so of dogs killed every year.
That is what I meant before that there should be strict licensing and breeding regulation, dogs should not be so accessible.
TrueBlu, you have my sympathy as after rescuing a dog that took over year to train, yes with 3 small children too I do know how you feel but stick with it, she will come right.

i have just thought. all thistalk of poo.

does she urinate indoors?