To return puppy to breeder?

[TrueBlu]

I'm really at the end of my tether with this.

I've had dogs all my life, mainly labs and collies who've house trained very quickly but also rescue dogs who've not been properly house trained as pups.

We now have an 8 month old boxer bitch.

She will not house train. The problem is she won't give any signals to be let outside. Everything has been done by the book, done again and redone again.

Lots of praise, treats, tethering to us, crate training, let out every 30 mins etc.

She continues to poo and we in her crate, or if she's not in the crate in the house.

I've contacted the breeder who says her mother was the same

One of the other owners from her litter says she's having a lot of problems with her bitch too.

The vet says she has no health problems.

We have DC and caught out 18 month old walking around with dog poo in her hand the other week...

Just don't know what to do.

One of my labs was housetrained by a month. My other gorgeous girl lab not until about 8 months.

Have you tried putting her out in the garden as soon as she is released from the crate then bring her back into the house as soon as she has Toileted, if she is not giving any indication that she needs to toilet then this might help. Don't wait until you think she may do it, even if it means putting her out every half hour for 15 minutes.
I remember my mum training her dog this way, (although she has never used a crate) Shed let him outside regularly for short periods of time throughout the day alongside his daily walks.

I don't have dogs as they're too much hard work for my liking. But I do get your frustration. I can't imagine being in the crate for long periods is helping though.

how often is the dog in the crate?

Can you clicker train it to go on command? Clicker training is very easy and a boxer should pick it up no problem. You have to take the dog out to do its business for quite a long time but once it's done then it might teach the dog when it's appropriate to do it. Clicker removes any ambiguity about what the dog might be getting praised for. As its doing it in the crate maybe it's territorial. Does it get away from the kids enough?

Lots of show dogs are trained to go on command.

8 months? Yikes, that's awful No advice but I hope you get it sorted.

Take her to a breed-specific rescue. It sounds like it would be best for both of you. You are totally right in what you say - you can't have your child getting dog poo on your hands. On the other hand, you haven't answered people's questions about how long she is in the crate, and it isn't fair if a dog is stuck in a crate for hours a day.

She needs a home with no children, where the owners can take time and patience to train her and not just lock her up in a crate to sit in her own poo. You need a dog that isn't going to cause a health risk to your children.

can you not make sure you know where she is at all times? Keep her with you solidly, so she can't just wonder off and do a poo, when she does wonder, take her outside

or rehome her to someone who can be with her at all times.
failing that,
keep her outside?

does she not eat her poo?

Hi Op, I feel for you! Our 6 year old dog was easy to train. Our puppy is 7 mths and isn't brilliant with toilet training although not as bad as you describe with your boxer. Things are starting to improve.

We limit where she can go in the house.

Specifically we noted the places in the house that she most liked to go and pretty much cut them off which has made the most difference.

She is worse in the evenings so we take it in turns to let her out every hour or so (or if we see any sign at all that she may want to go)

She has much more frequent walks and her longer walk is in the evening because that's the most problematic time.

i'm really not sure about the soiling in the crate as, thankfully, she's never done that. My friends' puppy did but fortunately outgrew it.

I'm not a dog expert but I wouldn't think being hard to toilet train would be a reason not to breed from a dog but I could be wrong. Good luck, I hope it works out. It's stressful I know.

Thanks, yes fixed meal times, fixed walks, solid poo, in crate at night and around 3 hours a day, although not in one go. Usually hour in morning, over lunchtime and hour in late afternoon.

She will go outside and often goes as soon as I let her out, so she does get that she's meant to go outside. The problem is if she needs to go she won't give any signal, I could have let her out 20 mins earlier and she'll still poo in the house.

If she's pooping many times a day I'd suggest you might be over feeding her, do you measure out her food or estimate? It could be that being in the crate for a lot of the time is hindering your progress of house training as she can't get anywhere else and you're not getting the chance to recognise her signs she needs to go out. Take her out very regularly and go out with her not just let her out the door. Praise her every time she wees or poos outside. If you really stick to taking out very regularly band praise each time I'm sure she will pick it up quickly.

A friend had boxers and they were all tricky to house train. She has best success with clicker training.
Try going back to basics and taking the dog out very regularly (every 10 minutes or so), click and treat every time she poos/wees outside, ignore anything done inside.
I would up her walks, again clicking and treating every time she goes.

I dont think I would consider rehoming her, this sounds fairly typical for the breed. You will get there, but it may be harder work to get there.

When she's outside, watch her carefully for signals she gives off before she goes. They may be subtle.
Once you've spotted these it can help you to catch her before she goes in the house.

If she's actively seeking a spot out of sight she's getting the signal and knows it's wrong but hasn't clicked what she should be doing (mum not taught her???????) to get it right.
Bit like your child constantly getting their times table wrong and you just shouting the answer but the child isn't understanding how to get to the answer, the teachers explained it too but not in a way the child is getting.

I would try a few behaviourists until one finds the right way of explaining it to your puppy. Hang on in there it will get easier.

What do you clean the 'messes' up with op?some cleaning products contain ingredients that might be encouraging her to go 'inside' iyswim.

My friend's pug was almost 18 months before it stopped having frequent 'accidents'. That was largely through laziness on the part of my friend - she couldn't be bothered to let it out every 30 mins when it was very young. She relied on puppy pads, which to me, are the spawn of the devil.

I agree with the suggestion of a behaviourist. They may be able to suggest alternative methods. Good luck.

I think though it takes a while for a dog to work out how to let you know they need to go out. Our dog house trained really easily,started by the breeder before he left his mum,but it took a while before he learnt to yap at the back door to be let out.Until then we took him out regularly and before that he'd be taken out as soon as he started circling or sniffing.
Nowadays he only toilets on walks, is yours walked regularly? even a walk around the block could encourage her to go outside. But if he is desperate or if he's going to be sick he does the same yap he did as a puppy and that he never does at any other time.

Also if you know what sort of time each day she's likely to poo (often right after she's eaten) take her outside and stay out until she's pooed, don't be too quick to think 'oh she's not going let's go back in' and make sure to praise as soon as she's done it in the correct place.

Good grief, I think its such a shame that the discussion is around what to do with a dog that is having difficulty understanding its new environment. The breeder probably spent no or very little time training the pup which was already in a non routine when you got her.
It's time there was strict licensing for dogs and cruel breeding banned which creates these loving creatures which have to endure a life of pain and discomfort.
Breeders breed dogs purely for how they look and most breeds have inherent problems due to them not being as how a dog should be. Pugs for example.... Due to his extremely flat face (brachycephalic) and round, bulging eyes, the eyes have very little protection and are prone to injuries (Brachycephalic ocular syndrome) – causes chronic irritation and pain.
Having a wrinkly face means that the skin folds can collect dirt and infections, particularly the over nose. Skinfold wrinkles can sometimes also rub on the eyes causing irritation.
Again, due to the lack of length of muzzle and small nostrils, pugs can suffer with Brachycephalic obstructive airway syndrome, causing chronic discomfort and exercise intolerance – if not treated, this can lead to laryngeal collapse.
The Pug’s screw tail is caused by Hemivertebrae (a deformity characterised by wedge-shaped bones – if elsewhere in the spine it can cause paralysis)
The Pug’s face and tail shape limits his ability to signal to other dogs.
5142 dogs were killed last year due to the UK surplus requirements due to over breeding and irresponsible owners.
www.dogworld.co.uk/product.php/145606/1/number_of_dogs_destroyed_each_year_should_shock_the_nation,_says_charity
Mums net could do to take a stance on this situation and raise awareness.

When will people learn and STOP buying from breeders?

Adopt, ffs!

That's really helpful

It's unfair to say everyone should adopt, when in reality that option is not always the best for a family.
I know several families who have adopted, but it has failed due to the dog rescue failing to make clear the issues the dogs had and whether they were ok with DC or other family pets.
The rescues that are good round here won't rehome to families with children under 5.

We've always had dogs that have been bred, but through people we know, with dogs we know well. Not breeders out to get a fast buck. Not all breeders are unscrupulous.

She does start to breath more heavily and wander when she needs to go but that is all, it's so subtle it's hard to tell.

Apart from this she is a dream. Amazing with DC, people and other dogs. Learnt very quickly not to jump up, sits and lies on command (also learnt very very quickly) brilliant recall, very calm around house. Just the bloody house training!