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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think there is very little benefit in earning more than 50k

517 replies

ReallyTired · 02/03/2016 23:45

Loss of child benefit and now reduction in pension tax relief makes hardly worth bursting a gut to earn over 50k. People who earn just over 50k are generally the work horses in skilled jobs that ecomony needs to grow. Given that such people will be saddled with high student loans in the future, what will senior teachers, doctors gain from all their hard work?

OP posts:
nauticant · 05/03/2016 21:50

Would you like to have more children Alanna1?

If it's important to you, do you think you might be able to configure your life to permit this?

ReallyTired · 06/03/2016 02:00

Even going a little bit outside London gives dramatically cheaper housing costs. A large family would be comfortable in this house.

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-40159557.html

Admitally you would need a very high income to buy this as a first time buyer. A first time buyer couple might buy something like this

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-38268618.html

And then move up to the bigger house after 8 years using the equity gained in the time to help with the costs of moving up.

If your income is more modest you might start somewhere like this.

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-40475340.html

Outside London it is perfectly achievable to live a good lifestyle on a lot less than 50k. If you have children you really have to earn considerably above 50k to see the benefit. In many situations there are additional costs with the better paid job. My husband felt that job paying 46k made more finanical sense than paying 5k (out of his net income) a year to go into London for a 55k job.

OP posts:
Want2bSupermum · 06/03/2016 02:15

I've come back after a wonderful afternoon out with DD. I work 100hrs/wk from the 2nd week of Jan through to Friday. It's guelling. Rest of the year I work about 45hrs/wk apart from when we have quarters going out and then it's 3 weeks of 70-80hrs/wk. I'm also on an 80% schedule.

My point is that £50k isn't a final salary I am aiming for. I have my sights on more for my career. That's my choice. Just as others choose to work less hours and earn less money.

The one thing to remember is not to be fooled into thinking someone on £50k a year is automatically better off. It depends on a number of factors. Also, the reverse snobbery is unreal. I'm on my own a lot with 2 kids. We have childcare that stays overnight when DH is away and I'm busy with work. We are currently in a 2bed unit in our building. That means I sleep on the trundle bed with the kids. Yes we are wealthy and I don't have a problem with the taxes we pay. However, when working as hard as we do the help is essential. Each weekend I do payroll and AP for the business plus deal with anything that has to be managed. It takes up to 6hrs to complete everything and I do it after the kids have gone down. It really irks me when I hear negative comments about the choices we have made. Each to their own. I just find it fascinating that people on here are convinced that someone working in a minimum wage job works as many hours as a higher tax rate payer. It's rare that its the case that working 40hrs/wk with no travel results in a salary greater than £50k a year.

kew Ive been getting home at 4am (finish up at 3am) and back up at 6:30am to get the kids ready for drop off at 7:30am to get myself back to my client for a 9am start. That's why it's essential I buy in services. My peers stay in a local hotel next door to the office we work at.

Anyway doing taxes for our business this weekend now that my client has issued.

ReallyTired · 06/03/2016 02:47

I have no doubt that a lot of NMW jobs are very hard physically. Many people in manual labour jobs have a lower life expectancy than white collar workers. Thus may well be due to differences in diet or smoking, but manual jobs do take a toll on the body.

People who earn 17k are irrelevant to this thread. I am comparing a job where you might earn 45k with a job where you earn 55k. Getting a little extra in the pay packet does not compensate for the additional costs or additional stress. Time with children is important and there is little point in earning pots of money with no time to enjoy it.

OP posts:
daisychain01 · 06/03/2016 02:56

In my place of work, earning 50k plus puts you into a grade that gives you extra benefits in kind so it isn't as simplistic as just looking at gross salary

lurked101 · 06/03/2016 02:57

"kew Ive been getting home at 4am (finish up at 3am) and back up at 6:30am to get the kids ready for drop off at 7:30am to get myself back to my client for a 9am start"

Can't be doing a very taxing job then can you? Hope you don't live near me being on the road after that little sleep.

"Thus may well be due to differences in diet or smoking"

Yes, cause everyone who earns money doesn't do any of this or anything bad. Want to take a trip with me to a city bar at about 6 pm?

SoThatHappened · 06/03/2016 03:13

£50k is fuck all in London.

I dont earn £50k, but even if I did, what could I do with it? On a £50k salary the bank would lend me £230k, I have £20k for a deposit.

£250k property in London

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-47447426.html

How delightful!

And I dont even earn £50 so cant even afford the grotty studio flat.

I cant really leave London as this is where the best work is in my field.

TheSinkingFeeling · 06/03/2016 03:17

Many people in manual labour jobs have a lower life expectancy than white collar workers. Thus may well be due to differences in diet or smoking, but manual jobs do take a toll on the body.

Tsk, those dreadful proles. Always smoking and eating chips.

KierkegaardGroupie · 06/03/2016 04:35

I'm in the U.S. too and whilst it has its problems you don't seem to get screwed on tax so much. In fact you get all the,tax back that you pay on interest on your home so whilst they take 20 per cent on a 50 k salary you get a good chunk back.
Of course the health care th I g here us wacko but it got better due to Obama.

We recently discovered our tiny flat in what is politely a suburb of London is now worth 220 k. Tiny. Totally ridiculous and I don't see how it is going to change. I do understand what the op is,saying....50 k is not a huge amount in London or the s.e a d certainly won't get you a mortgage on a 1 bed flat. People buying in that area today are house poor and I don't think it us unreasonable to feel irked by the way it has all turned out.

The rich get richer...the man on 50 k is not rich when he or she is,dropping 3 k on a mortgage and then travel on top to get to work...he is left with less than the one on 26 k in Newcastle or somewhere with lower cost of living.
50 k if it your only family income in London is very modest and,yes losing 40% in tax is ridiculous.

DeoGratias · 06/03/2016 07:26

The key issue will be whether getting over £50k sets you on sights for a £100k or even £1m plus careers which plenty of women manage. If it won't then you might well at certain points in terms of earnings be better off earning a bit less just as a lot of people have decided a part time job plus tax credits gets them the same income as a full time job so they allow full time working tax payers to subsidise them to work full time.

ReallyTired · 06/03/2016 07:45

Drop, don't you mean that other tax payers subsidise people to work at all! (Ironically lots of housing benefit claiments and those who receive child tax credits pay emormous amounts of tax in the form of vat.) The reality is that tax credit subsidise big business rather than those on low incomes. The likes of Tesco can and should pay a living wage to all its employees so they don't have to resort to benefits.

OP posts:
PosieReturningParker · 06/03/2016 07:54

I fully support incremental percentage rises on tax. I think it should go back to 50% past £150k.

£50k does seem to be one of those brackets where you seem to go from a teeny bit of help to zero.

BunnyTyler · 06/03/2016 08:41

But you are not going to stop dead at £50k presumably - your wages are going to continue to rise from there.
It's a temporary transitional period.

As for Want2b 'working 100 hour weeks' for an extended period, I don't believe you I'm afraid.

BunnyTyler · 06/03/2016 08:56

It's all very black and white isn't it?

The NMW workers being subsidised in every way and are apparently spending any extra on fags.

The hard working (100 hour per week?!) £50k-ers who are the 'workhorses' of the economy.

What about the middle earners? The £30k - £50k people.
The ones who don't get any government help and who are probably at the top of their achievable salary?

Anyway - the point is, that £50k is one of those transitional points where you end up slightly worse off for a short while.

BoboChic · 06/03/2016 08:59

BunnyTyler - you are very naive.

BunnyTyler · 06/03/2016 09:02

Why?

Want2bSupermum · 06/03/2016 11:45

There are plenty of people in the London office of my employer working insane hours to get ahead. It's the same with law firms and the investment banking firms. When you have a deal it's all hours until you are done. At the more junior levels it's tough financially, especially if you have DC. However, you have to look at the big picture. I am happier out of investment banking. Working on a deal I sat working in a hotel room for 3 months in Houston. I was miserable but yes I was very well paid. I like what I do now and I love the diversity of how DH and I make money. We both have a 2nd income stream.

One of the reasons why I don't agree with the doctors contracts is the wage doesn't reflect the hours. 72hs/wk on a long term basis is very difficult to do when you have a family and are making less than £80k a year on a long term basis. I am happy to work my socks off because the reward is there. If I keep going the opportunity is there for me to make $ (USD) 750k+ a year myself. DH has been able to break into upper management plus he has his business. He is already up there. That's why we can afford me having my career.

bunny and lurked There are plenty of people in the UK working 100+hrs/ wk at my employer and their competitors. I also know a few lawyers and those in banking who work those hours when working on a transaction. Yes they make a lot of money and are often vilified for it. If only those making snide comments actually knew what goes into getting to that type of position I think they might be a little bit more respectful.

Want2bSupermum · 06/03/2016 11:53

Kierkegaard I have to say I think the US tax system is fair. We pay AMT which means my income is taxed at an effective rate of about 40%. I do think taxing household income rather than each wage earner makes a whole lot more sense. It also allows for different household set ups to be considered. Head of household (I.e. Single parent) gets the biggest tax break. As they should! I just wish they did a better job of reflecting the difference in cost of living. Earning $100k in Alabama is not at all the same as earning $100k in San Fran!

lurked101 · 06/03/2016 12:14

Want2b, you are spouting drivel, for a start for someone who is working 100 hours weeks you seem to have a vast amount of time to be posting here. I know enough people working in the city and in law to tell you that 100 hour weeks are not common, unless you are counting every single breakfast and lunch meeting as "work" (and if so lucky you) and including answering emails and periods of time just thinking about it. Long hours are neccesary yes, but 100 hours is not common.

Do you know why its not common? Because the level of concentration you need to keep up in these jobs (in fact most jobs) is not possibe if you are that sleep deprived.

"If only those making snide comments actually knew what goes into getting to that type of position I think they might be a little bit more respectful."

The same could be said about those who earn less, many of these lesser paid jobs are extremely taxing and physically and mentally draining.

As for effort? It goes back to that where did you start from thing. I know plenty of bankers and lawyers, in my social circle ( yes even as a mere lazy and feckless teacher) I rub shoulders with MPs, high flying barristers, people who manage hedgefunds etc. Now isn't it funny that not all of them are the best, brightest and hardest working. There is plenty of nepotism still going on in the world, there are plenty of doors opened to you because of advantages and opportunities that people are given simply down to where and to whom they were born.

Check your privilige and stop whining about taxes.

BunnyTyler · 06/03/2016 12:17

If only those making snide comments actually knew what goes into getting to that type of position I think they might be a little bit more respectful.

Any snide comments are being made toward the assertion that a £50k wage is 'not great' and is comparable to a £17k wage.
Also to the assertion that only those on these higher wages are the 'workhorses'.

Anyone in the position whereby both parents work full time (or a single parent who works full time) has my respect as it is hard slog whatever your job or income level - but to say that £50k is not great income (with a sahp) is rather deluded if they think they have it hard.

lurked101 · 06/03/2016 12:22

Oh and can people stop spouting the "50k is fuck all in London" rubbish, its far higher than median salary for a start.

£50k on your own in rented accomodation in London with kids is doable to a good standard. £50k on your own is totally doable to save up a chunky deposit and buy somewhere to start out.

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-54151283.html

perfectly fine little flat there, 2 beds.

On 50k you need to stop moaning really, shows a distinct lack of a grasp on reality.

Want2bSupermum · 06/03/2016 12:40

lurked yes I post in here when on conference calls. They are awful but necessary. I have up to 5 a day. I also tend to post when I'm eating.

Oh and of course nepotism is why I am where I am. Actually that is BS. DH is the son of a janitor and home nurse. You would never know that if you met him. His uncle used to be one of the largest pig farmers in Denmark. People assume he got the job because of his uncle. Nope not at all. The vast majority of people I work with are incredibly bright, dedicated to their career and hard working.

Sparklycat · 06/03/2016 12:47

That flat is really grim, lurked

nauticant · 06/03/2016 12:53

A: I work hard. I work so so so hard you couldn't possibly understand. Boy do I work hard. It is just so difficult.

B: If it's that difficult why do you work so hard?

A: To have lots of money now and to have even more money in the future. And life choices.

B: Well, that's fine, if that's what you want.

A: No. YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND. I do all of this work and you do not value it. You should be grateful to me and to others like me.

DeoGratias · 06/03/2016 12:57

It is doubtful lawyers and bankers on the thread spout drivel. We tend to know what we're talking about. There is very little nepotism these days - in fact some firms won't recruit you if you have a connection - deliberately to avod that charge and you cannot get to application stage unless you have the right exam grades and they don't even know your name at that stage of application (very different from careers like journalism where unpaid internships etc prevail).

We can all make choices and then we live with the result of those choices. You can also decide no one gets on unless the magic fairy sprays dust on them so you might as well never work at anything - the more people with that idea the easier it will be for my and my children to beat them as we don't have that defeatist attitude and work with plenty of people who pulled themselves up from all kinds of bad starts.

We higher earners don't need understanding or appreciation and we will never get it but if you want that success for your daughters don't tell them it is impossible and everyone in these positions is handed them on a silver platter due to their blood line as you will do your daughters a disservice to say so. Let them make informed choice - that they are happy to work those hours (one of my daughters worked 43 hours without a break over a Christmas once and I was taking business calls the day after I had the twins BUT I don't mind - that is the problem for those trying yo compete with us - some of us love the work and don't mind long hours so if you are trying to compete against that and you would rather work less it becomes a difficult struggle).