To think sport comes with an element of danger (Rugby)

[DadKeepsCalm1]

In the news today, a group of 70 doctors have written to the government to make rugby a non contact sport at high school.

Although a rougher sport, it really is not that dangerous with the proper equipment and professional supervision.

Also how are we supposed to find new talent, if people are not trained to play proper rugby.

My dss is 16 and plays rugby for his school and its by far my favourite sport. I love watching him play and it would be ashame if the game was spoiled.

I know lots of boys who play on Saturday and Sunday. I didn't realise there was guidance on this from the RFU.

Thank you grouchykiwi that makes interesting reading. I am hopeful there is similar information for the uk but I have yet to find it.

Yes i totally accept that different sports carry their own risk. I guess the crux of it for me is that other sports acknowledge it and do their best to minimise the risk. It's taken seriously and not seen as an unavoidable if not accepted part of the sport.

I know some posters have pointed out measures that have been taken in the uk to reduce the risk for rugby. However no one has pointed out to me a systematic uk approach such as they have in NZ.

Instead there are numerous posters essentially dismissing concerns. Almost a culture IMHO that the risk is defended to protect the game rather than identifying and reducing the risk to protect the players iyswim.

Just reading something about the professional game that was saying that half of serious neck injuries were from scrums. Since the laws changed in 2013 the forces involved in the scrum have been reduced by 50%.

PirateSmile Thu 03-Mar-16 14:15:25 What's really extraordinary is that some children play for school and clubs. The impact on their bodies from two games a week plus training (which for forwards often includes tackling practice) must be incredible. Up to now, I've never heard the RFU comment on this.

There are strict rules around this in youth football. It is well recognised within the FA that repeated matches over a short period of time cause damage to growing children and there are strictly enforced guidelines for academies etc.

My DS is in Y7 and at a school that lives and breathes its compulsory rugby. All the boys in the A team are massive - with many going through early puberty. The difference in size between some of them is huge. Two have been hospitalised with concussion in the last week.

I think the weight/size grouping is a much better idea than age, but sadly no doubt a PITA for schools to organise.

I'm ready for a bit of flaming on this one but IME rugby is 'safer' in the private sector (3DC, mixture of state & private education). DS3 is, to use a pp's words, a 'rugby school' and the Rugby coaches are very separate to the PE teachers. They also start playing tag and touch in prep school or the junior part of the school if it is an integrated one like DS's where they go right from 4/5 through to leaving for Uni so by the time they start playing contact rugby they've all already got c.6 years of rugby skills training.

Likewise, they have superb equipment (way more than DS1's 2 state schools) and more of it for practising scrums and tackles.

HOWEVER.... To kinda prove it's still not that safe even in the best/most trained of environments - DS3 (HUGELY experienced player for a 14 year old AND one of the 5'10'' jobbies to boot) was tackled badly really fucking dangerously in a match last year, lifted off his feet into the air and fell backwards with the head hitting the ground first - on to a January grass pitch which was, to all intents and purposes, concrete given the conditions. He felt fine so didn't say a word to anyone and match officials didn't see that he'd fallen backwards (if they had he'd have been removed from play immediately) tho they HAD seen the illegal tackle and player was booked.

Was only a few hours later at home when he was acting a bit odd & I started to grill him about his day and the match in particular when he said 'yeah, wll I did bang my head a bit after this guy lifted me 2 foot up and I fell back..'

Spent the evening being ob'd in A&E as had clear case of concussion...

I was fucking LIVID that they'd seen the tackle but failed to clock the nature of the fall and thus allowed to play on - as THAT is when it really is super dangerous, one concussion and playing on and then incurring a second whack to the head can, literally, be lethal. He wasn't allowed to return to contact sports for 4 weeks.

As a side note, the school revised their policy in light of his concussion and all players are now required to report any fall they see to a match official even if the player in question insists they are 'fine'.

I don't have an issue with dangerous sports, as long as they are correctly supervised (I'm a rock climber whose DS races BMX bikes).

But the dangers in rugby are so well documented, and accidents so frequent, that I think informed consent should be required for contact rugby - which would effectively mean not before age 14/15.

My DS is 13, Y9, 5ft4 and weighs about 6 stone. I would take him out of school sport like a shot if he were obliged to do contact rugby, especially with much larger boys. I've already removed him from a martial arts module where basic safety rules did not seem to be observed. Where there is a risk to the head and spine the school only gets one shot at getting their risk management right.

My son plays club and school rugby. Club rugby is fab. They learn to tackle and scrum slowly over years, and the games are carefully monitored. There are very few injuries in club rugby.

School rugby is a bloodbath. The kids are tackling without being taught to tackle. Lots of our year 7 club players get drafted to play with year 8 school team and get hurt. The school does not make them wear a mouth guard! My son is a number 2 and knows if he does not wear a mouth guard and a scrum crap and I find out I will phone the school and make a fuss. An embarrassing fuss.

I agree they should play tag at school because the PE teachers don't have time to teach them to play safety.

I can't say enough great things about club rugby. I love it. If he wan't playing rugby he'd be watching more you tube.

DS is recovering from concussion at the moment.
We have the leaflet printed out
www.englandrugby.com/mm/Document/MyRugby/Headcase/01/30/49/57/returntoplayafterconcussion_Neutral.pdf
He knows when he'll be allowed to play again so long as he is sensible and honest with us in between.
He loves it

Rugby should NOT be compulsory in schools
but it SHOULD be an option

Wow rugby with no tackling What ever next this is just mad. My daughter is year 10 and plays for the school girls team and loves it. Yes she gets bruised but that can happen in any sport. We won't be letting children do anything soon.

It's not the bruises they're trying to avoid, it's the concussions and spinal fractures. No one is saying it should be banned, just not compulsory. Your Dd's wouldn't be affected in any way.

my son has played club from the age of 6 and he is now 13 and plays for his school and club. the difference is club starts as tag and most of the boys just dance around looking for worms, slowly as they get older new moves are introduced and then around 11 or 12 it looks like a real game.
my sons primary did 2 seasons of tag so he did no school rugby really till going to Grammar and the school has to train new first time rugby players to tackle, scrum, try and kick within a year. I don't think its any more dangerous than horse riding, but technique goes a long way, instead of dumbing it down teach primary kids slowly and properly boys and girls.

Rugby has become a hideous game for Neanderthals, there is no skill in it now. I just don't see how deliberately running into people can be viewed as a sport ? Any other sport apart from boxing is all about the skill of speed and deception needed to make your way around other players with whatever shaped ball you are carrying ! Rugby used to be like this but now it just seems the bigger you are the better. It's true what they say it's a thugs game the sooner it's banned in schools the better !

I would object to my children being compelled to play tackle rugby at school. I'd pull them out of that.

But horse riding isn't compulsory.

'But horse riding isn't compulsory'

OTOH, another dangerous sport in terms of number/severity of injuries - gymnastics - quite often is.

The main author of this report has a real issue because her son had a broken cheekbone in a (private) school game. I know her and her bugbear.
I'm an ex rugby player. DP is a Kiwi ex rugby player. We both play Touch Rugby (I haven't for a couple of years).
We've both seen some horrible injuries. We've both had a couple. It's not perfect but we'll let both our kids play when they're big enough. I agree on the weight rather than age categories.
To us, the benefits of the game outweigh any risk - but we'll ensure they're trained properly. It baffles me how top class players still haven't learned where to put their head in the tackle....(Leigh Halfpenny, I'm looking at you here....)

70 doctors and academics haven't called for the banning of compulsory gymnastics. I don't see that they have any particular axe to grid in doing this so have to conclude that they have the children's well being in mind.

70 doctors and academics haven't called for the banning of compulsory gymnastics
but over 99% of doctors did NOT sign that letter about rugby.

She has an axe to grind
and the meejah are to idle to ask her for comparative evidence about other sports

gymnastics is compulsory but a) most children won't do much more than a basic vault or possibly attempt a rope climb at school and b) there won't be a child a foot taller than them attempting to pull them off the rope while they do it.

I agree fully with banning contact rugby in schools, unless it's for kids who are on the school team and training properly with a qualified rugby coach.

It makes me worry sick when I think if DS moving to secondary school this year. He has HF ASD and hates contact from other people. I'm guessing he won't have to do it but why not just do tag rugby for everyone so as not to exclude anyone.

The only reason anyone needs to tackle is if they continue to play it as an adult and then, they usually go to an outside club anyway.

For those saying all sports are dangerous and pose he same risks, that isn't true. Table tennis, tennis, swimming, Pilates, jogging....generally, these are much lower risk, non contact sports. School sports doesn't just have to be about rugby and football!

Some of the parent coaches at our local club have never actually played rugby

...and? They have been trained and assessed by UKCC , unlike many PE teachers
In my sport (gymnastics) it is very common to have coaches who have never been gymnasts and many of the international coaches (eg Nadia Comeneci coach were not gymnasts themselves.Different skills are needed in coaching a sport compared to participating in it.

And, they have zero understanding of the game.

To those who are okay with contact rugby, would you be okay with boxing being compulsory in schools? Genuinely interested not trying to be goady!

This thread has actually changed my mind. I don't think full contact games should be compulsory but I don't think contact drills and training are a problem.

I'm sure I'll get accused of being overly macho but I do think that we shouldn't hide our kids away from risk. Obviously there needs to be some effort to minimise the risk, E.g low speed drills and weight classes. I do think rugby teaches somethings that other team sports don't and it would be a shame to lose them because of a small risk.

Rugby is also a game for people of all different sizes, I know that is changing a bit but it's still true at a lower level.

I suppose the issue is - are kids in a position to properly assess the danger.

Not really, rugby is compulsory in lots of schools, so a kid can see danger and know they are going to get hurt but they are not allowed to withdraw.

Teach touch rugby in schools and tackle in clubs where children have a choice of attending. Or as an after school activity, again with a choice.